Wahi and 33:62 ?

by Damon, Pennsylvania, USA, Wednesday, September 26, 2012, 23:15 (2463 days ago) @ Zuhaib Sabri

Dear Zuhaib Sabri, Salaamun 'Alaiykum,

Zuhaib Sabri: "How can we really Prove that Quran is the WORD OF GOD ?"

Damon - We CANNOT prove to ANYONE that The Quran is the word of God. Moreover, The Quran DOES NOT require Believers to try and prove it to anyone. It is up to each individual to research The Quran for themselves and come to their own conclusions about it. Some people will read it, some will not. Some will read it strictly to find fault and flaws and approach it with preconceived prejudices and some will make an honest attempt to rid themselves of preconceived negativity and try to understand it. Some will come to agree with the contents of The Quran and it's overall message and some WILL NOT agree with its contents and overall message. Of those who disagree with The Quran and its message some of them will understand the true message of The Quran and some will misunderstand the message. There is absolutely NOTHING any of us can do to change these realities.

Zuhaib Sabri: "I find a lot of scientific facts in the Quran which we have only recently found out about through Modern Science. And I have read some books like 'Who Wrote the Quran' by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed Sir and 'Quran and Modern Science : Conflict or Conciliation' by Dr. Zakir Naik Sir. No doubt I find the one by Dear Dr. Shabbir Ahmed Sir very interesting."

Again, these are the conclusions you have come to based upon your own study and how you understand The Quran. So I must repeat that it is up to each and every individual to study the book for themselves and come to their own conclusions.

Zuhaib Sabri: "I find that mostly people prove the Quran to be the Word of God because of the Zero Probability of Muhammad(S) to have said all the Scientific things in Quran and none turned out to be problematic."

Even this view in and of itself is problematic. For example, there is the common belief among Muslims (traditional and non traditional alike) that Muhammad could not have known the properties of the seas such as some being salty and dense and others being non salty and not as dense. They base this erroneous view on the belief that Muhammad lived in "Central Arabia" as opposed to living near the seas on the coasts. But even if he did live somewhere in Central Arabia does not take away from the possibility that he could have been "Well Traveled" and "Well Educated" due to his travels if you get what I mean. This is just one example applied to one scientific phenomena, the same can be applied to the other ones.

I think it's a very big mistake to invite others to the Quran on the bases of miracles, so-called scientific facts or even the notion of God. The PURPOSE of The Quran is to educate the human mind and equip the human character with the hunger for and ability to establish a just society on planet earth. Those who long for justice on this planet and have the character and fortitude to establish justice are the ones who would do true justice by The Quran, not those who approach from a miraculous, ritualistic and "religious" mindset. We must remember That The Quran promotes a "DEEN" and "DEEN" IS NOT Religion.

Zuhaib Sabri: "I am not sure that ONLY Scientific facts being mentioned are the sole criteria to Judge and conclude the Quran to be the word of GOd,"

I would argue that chasing what some believe to be scientific facts are actually detrimental for inviting others towards The Quran. I hate to say this but some of the so-called "scientific" facts that a lot of Muslims believe The Quran explains are quite refutable among Scientists who have read these so-called scientific facts and measured them against established Scientific Studies and Results. All we have to do is google these terms and read ALL OF THE STUDIES that are available on the internet and be brave and unphased at what we will discover.

Zuhaib Sabri: "In 33:62, Allah says that we will not find any change in the Laws of Allah"

This expression is repeated several times throughout The Quran. But nowhere does this expression suggest anything about The Quran explaining Scientific facts or even pointing to the idea of science at all.

Zuhaib Sabri: "Is it not the God's intervention with the human Laws of acquiring guidance by using God's given Conceptual and Perceptual faculties by way of Observation and Experimentation and Innovation ??"

I would say a hefty NO!! There is not intervention by God. The verse you cited above already says it. There is no changing The Laws of Allah. Human beings throughout different stages of their existence have "discovered" these unchangable laws through inquiry, study, experimentation, research and deductive analysis. These laws are unchanged and unchangable but human beings have learned of these unchanged and unchangable laws through study and inquiry. And what makes it even more amazing is that the majority of these studies and inquiries are coming from among the Non Muslims!!!

While ritualistic, miracle and religious minded Muslims are so busy misinterpreting The Quran and living in total chaos and squalor, the ones that they call "Infidels" are the very people who not only are at the forefront and cutting edge of scientific inquiry, but are also the ones that these same religious minded Muslims come to for their higher education.

So let's talk about Allah's unchangable laws and "God's intervention"....One of His Laws is that an average Grizzly Bear is much, much, much stronger than an average Human. Another law is that Grizzly Bears are naturally equipped with claws and teeth that the average human being is not equipped with. Another unchangable law is that if the average human tries to go against the average grizzly bear empty handed, the human being will lose...every time....and very, very badly. Now I have yet to hear of God's intervention in the sense that a human being with no weapons routinely goes against a grizzly bear and always manages to defeat the bear. According to His unchangable laws, fire will always be hot and will always burn, gravity on planet earth is real, without water and nourishment the human body will die, a woman MUST be impregnated by a man in order to conceive life in her womb (yes, I am taking a jab at the whole "Miraculous Conception" thing) and a grizzly bear will ALWAYS absolutely destroy a human being.

Zuhaib Sabri: "If No, then how did God 'choose' men for His special guidance without intervening with the Laws ?"

Because his laws are established to where a person with a certain type of character and mindset will be able to "intuitively" look at the world and how human beings interact and run their societies and be able to see the good, the not so good and the outright evils that plague these societies. In fact, the evil minded people ALSO realize these very things, but there are evil minded people who have managed to collect enough power to allow, indeed to MANDATE, these evils in their societies. Messengers and Prophets are those who have the intelligence, moral character and BRAVERY to CHALLENGE these evil things as well as those who mandate them. For these reasons (and IF we can get our minds out of the religious way of thinking) people such as Malcolm X, Harriet Tubman, Marcus Garvey, G.A. Parvez, Mohammed Iqbal and Quaid-e-Azam Mohammed Ali Jinnah can be looked at as being Messengers because of what they TAUGHT to their people for whom they fought to free and because THEIR WORKS.....what they did in order to ESTABLISH that freedom they wanted for their people.

Zuhaib Sabri: "P.S. I am studying two books to find these answers. 'Jahan-e-fardan' and 'Insaan ne kya socha' both by Respected G. A. Parwez Sir.
If you think that some other source can be of help, in addition to the above books, please suggest."

Personally, I would HIGHLY SUGGEST that you learn The Arabic Language so you can STUDY THE QURAN for yourself and find the answers that you seek. You can still read books by various authors and even read Quran Translations and tafseers while ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS keeping 17:36 and 39:17-18 in mind while doing so. Never, ever be afraid to do your own thinking and CHALLENGE the prevalent beliefs no matter WHO holds them and WHO promotes them. And something that I had to learn the hard way. Never, ever, EVER put your full faith and trust in a human being...ANY HUMAN BEING whoever he may be.

One last thing concerning what this Atheist Girl said:

"please explain. We have this belief in god because a physical form, Muhammed, said so, and his authority and credibility are assured by this god deity that supposedly tells us through Muhammed that Muhammed is his messenger. Great logic, honey."

I agree with her. This is "Circular Logic" and one of many ways in which the traditional Muslims go wrong.


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