WHAT IS JUMMA SALAT IN QURAN???

by drsam ⌂ @, Vadodara, Gujarat, India, Monday, July 16, 2012, 07:47 (1980 days ago)

what is this jumma salat i know that jumma means to gather and salat means to strive for establishing the devine system so jumma means striving togather

so what does quran say about jumma cause i am still confused about it:-(

WHAT IS JUMMA SALAT IN QURAN???

by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Monday, July 16, 2012, 16:23 (1980 days ago) @ drsam

62:9Ya ayyuha allatheena amanoo itha noodiya lilssalati min yawmi aljumuAAati faisAAaw ila thikri Allahi watharoo albayAAa thalikum khayrun lakum in kuntum taAAlamoona

62:9 O You who have chosen to be graced with belief! When the call for Salaat (carrying out Divine commands) is announced on the Day of the Congregation, hasten to the remembrance of God (through the Qur‟an) and leave your commerce. That is for your own good if you use your knowledge to understand.
62:10 And when the commands have been understood, disperse freely in the land and seek to implement God‟s bounty (His commands). And remember God (His laws) often so that you may prosper. [62:4]
62:11 Yet when they see some bargain or entertainment, they rush to it, and leave you standing. Say, “What is with God is better than all entertainment and all bargain. God is the Best of providers.”


From the above we can see that instructions need to be given to people and for them to implement them when they leave. It is not a day of prayers.

My understanding is that the community can be called to a gathering so that matters that need to be discussed and debated/resolved can be addressed. It is not a specific day, but any day the community leader decides something is too important for him to implement himself.

The idea of a specific day, Friday, was copied from the Jews [Saturday] and Christians [Sunday] and has no authority from the Quran to make this a ‘special’ day.

WHAT IS JUMMA SALAT IN QURAN???

by purnima @, India, Monday, July 16, 2012, 17:36 (1979 days ago) @ drsam

Dear Dr Sam,

I am also confused about following words mentioned in Surah Al-Jumu’a 62:09 :-

1) IZAA NUDIYA LISSALAATI ...When the call for Salaat

(who is calling...??)

2) YAUMIL JUMUATI...Day of the Congregation

(To establishing the Divine System, why Congregation is necessary...?? why only daytime...?? )

WHAT IS JUMMA SALAT IN QURAN???

by drsam ⌂ @, Vadodara, Gujarat, India, Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 03:15 (1979 days ago) @ purnima

peace

as far as i understood from dr shabbir ahmed's translation

1. government or society calling for discussion on problems of society

2. congregation means to gather and to discuss that is democracy u know... and it only daytime as obviously all such works are done in day time

even quran also says day time is for work and night for rest:-)

WHAT IS JUMMA SALAT IN QURAN???

by Hasan @, Mumbai India, Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 10:03 (1979 days ago) @ purnima

Respected Sister Purnima and Dr Sam,

LISSALAATI ...To establish the Divine System, why Congregation is necessary and why YAUMIL JUMUATI only at day time and ZARUL BA’A why taking a gap in Business for it...??

WHAT IS JUMMA SALAT IN QURAN???

by drsam ⌂ @, Vadodara, Gujarat, India, Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 16:19 (1979 days ago) @ Hasan

i am repeating my answer if u didnt read

peace

as far as i understood from dr shabbir ahmed's translation

1. government or society calling for discussion on problems of society

2. congregation means to gather and to discuss that is democracy u know... and it only daytime as obviously all such works are done in day time

even quran also says day time is for work and night for rest:-)

doing in day time is obvious we do everything at daytime mostly there were no lights uptill 100 yrs ago

and gathering and discussing is essential part of democracy

WHAT IS JUMMA SALAT IN QURAN???

by Waqas ⌂ @, UK, Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 11:20 (1979 days ago) @ drsam

peace all,

I recommend:
http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=12309.msg96387#msg96387

And:
http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=62&verse=9#(62:9:1)

Note it says "min yawmi l-jumua'ti..." = from/of day (of) gathering/congregation...

WHAT IS JUMMA SALAT IN QURAN???

by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Tuesday, July 17, 2012, 15:44 (1979 days ago) @ Waqas

I have always understood this as a general call to people at particular times, not a specific one which I understand is being linked only to hajj on freeminds. The Quran calls mankind to the hajj yet in surah 62 it is addressing the believers so I do not see how this can only be for hajj. Local communities need to work together with clear objectives so at certain times the leaders will call all the believers, those who believe in the Quranic System, leaving aside their normal daily activities and gather to discuss the relevant issues. Once these have been understood and directions given on how to implement them, they will disperse and carry on their normal activities. This is a clear statement that life is about practical solutions and not asceticism as some believe.

Without going over the whole debate on the freeminds website I would like to ask your comments regarding this viewpoint and whether it is valid or categorically incorrect.

WHAT IS JUMMA SALAT IN QURAN???

by Waqas ⌂ @, UK, Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 09:00 (1978 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

peace Bro Jawaid,

You said (emphasis mine):
"I have always understood this as a general call to people at particular times, not a specific one which I understand is being linked only to hajj on freeminds."

Then said (emphasis mine):
"The Quran calls mankind to the hajj yet in surah 62 it is addressing the believers so I do not see how this can only be for hajj."

On the one hand you say you see it as a "general call to people", but on the other, say "the leaders will call all the believers, those who believe in the Quranic System" - which one is it?
Why cant a leader call the believers from a mix* of people present at al-hajj?
*which would almost always be the case unless we imagine an area with only mumineen, which the context of 62:9 does not seem to indicate

You are right that al-hajj is open to all of humankind, and as you also rightly allude to, the regular/timed salat is for the mumineen [e.g. 4:103].

When we review the Arabic, we can see it fits perfectly, hence my 2nd link:

"when the call is made for/to the salat from/of (the) day/period of gathering/congregation/assembly..."


###

This is my understanding at the present time. Your thoughts?

WHAT IS JUMMA SALAT IN QURAN???

by Hicham Mouna, Denmark, Wednesday, July 18, 2012, 15:05 (1978 days ago) @ Waqas

SA.

Dear brothers, i hope it is ok i intervene with another question in regards to the call.

The muezzin, would it still be a viable/valid solution to call for prayer/congregation?

I do not know much of the history of the muezzin job.

What do all of you think of this?

--
Best regards
Hicham

- a novice in the long road of learning

WHAT IS JUMMA SALAT IN QURAN???

by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Thursday, July 19, 2012, 08:21 (1977 days ago) @ Waqas

My apologies, when the ‘call’ is made for the jumma salat it is only for those who believe in the Divine System, based on addressing local needs. Those who are non “muslim” are not going to be invited since they do not believe in it. Dare I mention that the Messenger did not have Jews, Christians and Mushriks in his ‘shura’ council, they did not accept him so they could not be relied upon to give proper advice; he still ensured they had full rights as citizens and their welfare was looked after though..

“Why cant a leader call the believers from a mix* of people present at al-hajj?”

In hajj we agree that it is for mankind but I do not see why only the believers are called from the mix present there. In my opinion Hajj is akin to the United Nations assembly where people can gather to discuss global issues that affect us all. It would be regulated by believers who would have the interest of everyone in mind. This is different to local gatherings since the majority of mankind would not be believers and many parts of the world would be ruled by them, but this should not exclude them from discussing and agreeing to things that affect us all. In the UN each country has its own agenda, but with Hajj there would be no veto powers except the principles of the Quran.

We could say then why would non belivers attend if the Quran rules? The Quran declares that once you have set up the Quranic system this will attract people who want to see how and why it works; hence the hajj/umra gatherings.

22:27 “And announce to mankind the duty of Pilgrimage. They will come to you on foot, and on every kind of fast mount, coming from every far away point on earth.”
22:28 So that they might see with their own eyes and experience what benefits the Divine System holds for them (in addition to uniting them in the common bond of humanity). And they shall commemorate God‟s Name collectively during the specified days of Hajj; and over the livestock He has bestowed upon them. Then host one another with the livestock (to make the Congregation self-sufficient in the food resources). Eat and feed the distressed poor (regardless of whether they are in the congregation or not). [An important note: Although the Saudi government forbids non-Muslims to come to Makkah and Madinah, this practice is contrary to the Qur‟an. The idolaters are forbidden only to „ya‟mur‟ or administer the Masjid for obvious ideological reasons. (9:17-18, 3:97). In fact, they must be allowed to come and witness the benefits of the unity of mankind. (22:27-28)]

The Messenger invited everyone, non believers included, to show them the system he had implemented based upon the Quranic teachings he had received.

I can see how only believers could be called to an ‘inner’ conference/gathering at Hajj, but from what I have written above my personal opinion is that we need to get everyone talking while they are there; Jaw, jaw, not war war!


Regarding 4:103; the “regular/timed salat” is whenever the leaders wish to call all the believers together to discuss something rather than leave it to the elected members who would run the affairs on daily, normal bases. These times will be announced when necessary, fixed so that everyone is aware of them and make an effort to attend. I do not believe it relates to fixed times that they have for namaz.

= Waw-Qaf-Ta = to fix, defined/determined/limited a thing as to time, APPOINT/DECLARE/ASSIGN A TIME, measure of time (e.g. season).

WHAT IS JUMMA SALAT IN QURAN???

by Waqas ⌂ @, uk, Thursday, July 19, 2012, 21:04 (1976 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

salaam Jawaid,

Our views do not differ much.

However, I do not understand your differentiating the two views, for example you say: "I can see how only believers could be called to an ‘inner’ conference/gathering at Hajj, but from what I have written above my personal opinion is that we need to get everyone talking while they are there; Jaw, jaw, not war war!"

What makes you think everyone there would not be talking? Clearly everyone would be mingling and talking in al hajj.


Secondly, you said salat "is whenever the leaders wish to call all the believers together".

Can you clarify, as per Quran, what qualifies as a "leader" and only they can call to salat?

Thanks.

WHAT IS JUMMA SALAT IN QURAN???

by Abolade. @, U S A, Sunday, November 04, 2012, 17:11 (1868 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

Regarding Jumma, I tend to agree with you as I always wondered ,was it a gathering on a specific day or when it became necessary ? I checked a few translations and some do not have Friday,but rather when the call to Salat is made on the day of congregation,which could mean any day.Touching on Hajj you say rituals are absent from Salat in the Quran,but what about Hajj,I am not debating with you I just want to know,as I do not speak Arabic,but I am also aware that translations could be manipulated,I want to be specific,I believe that Muhammad was given one book, which he delivered-The Holy Quran, that's it.

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