by Hasan @, Mumbai India, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 04:06 (1830 days ago)

Respected All,

My Debate held on 25/08/2012 withN2I, for same I require :

1) All Verses related with Qiblaah.

2) Conceptions/Opinions/Comments related to Qiblaah of GA Parwaiz, Dr Shabbir Ahmed MD Florida,
Abdullah Chakraalwi & Dr Raashad Khalifa.

3) Any Hadith related with Qiblaah which would help me to trap N2I.


by Waqas ⌂ @, uk, Thursday, August 16, 2012, 16:08 (1829 days ago) @ Hasan


by Hasan @, Mumbai India, Friday, August 17, 2012, 14:38 (1829 days ago) @ Waqas

jazaakALLAH for your reply but my requirements are still not fulfilled


by Laurie Hamdani @, Chicago, Friday, August 17, 2012, 14:49 (1829 days ago) @ Hasan

Please download the QXP pdf file from this site (available under Forum policy). Once downloaded you can search for the word qiblah to find all verse where this term occurs.

Then you can use corpusquran.com to read those verses from various translators to compare.

Respectfully, others here are willing to help you, but you must also be willing to help yourself.

Salaam and thank you.


by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Monday, August 20, 2012, 13:53 (1826 days ago) @ Hasan

Qiblah is the IDEOLOGY you should be following. Turning away from Jerusalem to Mecca is not the meaning which is confirmed by 10:87.

Dr Shabbir.

2:142 Those of little understanding among people say, “What has turned them from Jerusalem, the Qiblah that the Jews used to follow? Say, “To God belongs East and West. He guides to the straight path whoever wills (to be guided).”
[„They‟ = Jews. Qiblah = Center of devotion = Symbol of uniform Ideology = Center for the unity of mankind = Deen = System of Life. The Children of Israel have considered Jerusalem as their Center of devotion but the Jews always believed in a tribal god and, hence, a tribal center. But God is the Lord of all humanity. He makes no distinction between Jews and Gentiles. And the Qur‟an invites all mankind to become one community. His Final message is not confined to a particular tribe, nation or group of people. Ka‟bah erected by Abraham, the first ever House of monotheism, has always been the Qiblah for all humanity. 2:213, 3:96, 4:170, 6:91-92, 7:158, 10:19, 12:104, 21:107, 22:49, 34:28, 38:87, 57:25, 114:1]
2:143 Thus We have made you a Balanced Community that you might be witnesses to all mankind, and the Messenger a witness over yourselves. We have appointed the Direction that you have always adopted (O Messenger) in order to distinguish him who follows the Messenger, from him who turns about on his heels. In fact, this adoption of Ka‟bah as the Qiblah has been difficult except for those who follow God‟s Guidance. It is never God‟s purpose to let your faith go to waste. God is Compassionate and Merciful to all people.
[Ummah = Community = A Community based on Divine Ideology. „Turns about on his heels‟ = Goes back to his old ways = Succumbs to traditional beliefs. 2:142, 4:88, 29:25]
2:144 We have seen your eagerness (O Messenger), therefore, We will certainly make you control and administer the Qiblah that is dear to you (for its Sublime objective). Keep your purpose focused on the Masjid of Security, and all of you believers, wherever you are, keep your purpose focused toward it. Those who have been given the scripture before know that this (revelation) is the truth from their Lord. God is not unaware of what they do.
[The verse is not commanding people to turn their faces, as usually misunderstood. See 2:177. Wajh = Face = Countenance = Whole being = Purpose. Qiblah = Direction = Center of devotion = Masjid of Security 58

= Source of peace and security for all humanity = The Symbol of a uniform Ideology = Symbol of pure Monotheism = Source of the unity of mankind. Ka‟bah has been the Center of devotion for all humanity ever since it was erected by Prophets Abraham and Ishmael. 2:142, 2:213, 3:96, 4:170, 6:91-92, 7:158, 10:19, 12:104, 21:107, 22:49, 34:28, 38:87, 57:25, 114:1]
2:145 Even if you were to place all evidence (in these verses) together before the People of the Book, they will not follow your Qiblah, and neither may you follow their Qiblah, nor will they even follow each other‟s Qiblah. If you followed their errant views after the knowledge has come to you, you will be among the misdirected.
[Qiblah = Direction = Focal Point = It is the tangible but symbolic structure for unity of mankind. People honor the temples of their choice. They will recognize the Ka‟bah as their own Qiblah when evolution of human civilization brings them to the right conclusion. 2:158, 3:97, 4:170, 6:84-91, 22:23-28. Zaalimeen = Oppressors = Those who hurt themselves or others = Those who choose to do wrong = Who displace something from its rightful place = Who relegate the truth = Violators of human rights = Misdirected = Those who prefer to live in the darkness of ignorance = Commonly translated as wrongdoers]

10:87 We commanded Moses and his brother, “Maintain your homes in Egypt, and turn them into places of worship to remember God. Establish the Commandments in your lives and give good news to the believers.”

GA Parwaz
2:142 The people (Jews) ask as to why did the Muslims forsake Jerusalem as Qibla and instead made K’aba as their Qibla when the earlier Ahl-ul-Kit’ab had Jerusalem as their Qibla.
This question arises from lack of knowledge otherwise the matter is not difficult to comprehend. Jerusalem is the national centre of Bani-Isr’ael and Islam is a call to all humanity. It is obvious that the centre of a Universal Order should be open to the entire world and not be confined to a particular nation or race. For this purpose, Allah has guided the Jama’at-ul-Momineen towards the K’aba, which is the straight path.
2:143 Therefore, O Jama’at-ul-Momineen! pay no heed to this question. Our objective is to make you a people with a universal outlook to be equidistant from all other peoples i.e. neither leaning towards any particular people nor estranged from another. Your responsibility is to keep a watch over the activities of other people of the world (to see that no nation is oppressing the other) and the responsibility of the Rasool (being the head of the Divinely-ordained System – 3/109, 22/78) is to watch over your activities.
The objection raised by the Jews is the outcome of a conflict between two opposite mentalities; one given to examining a disputed point objectively and the other to dealing with it subjectively. On rational grounds it is obvious that a system established for the benefit of all humanity is decidedly better than one which has narrower i.e. tribal or racial objectives. The adoption of the K’aba as the centre not of a particular people but of a Universal System constituted a concrete criterion whereby the two mentalities could be distinguished from each other. Subscribing to a Universal System rather than one based upon narrow tribal or racial affiliations and interests, is an uphill task but those who have the courage to take such a course are duly protected from the ill effects of destructive forces and provided adequate sources of nourishment.
2:144 We are also aware of your constant yearning that you should have possession of, and jurisdiction over the place (Makkah) which We have proclaimed to be the centre of Our system. This will certainly happen. What you need to do is to direct all your activities towards liberating the K’aba from ungodly forces wherever you may be and whatever is your sphere of activity.
The fact is that these Ahl-ul-Kit’ab know fully well that your call is based upon truth from Allah (since it was mentioned in their books) but they will continue to oppose it out of stubbornness and prejudice. We are aware of all that they do.
2:145 It is evident that rational arguments are ineffective where stubbornness and prejudice prevail. Therefore, even if you advance all possible arguments, they will not follow your Qibla but insist that you should follow theirs. This you cannot do since your Qibla is Divinely-appointed. It is strange that Jews and Christians unite in their opposition to you but their Qiblas are separate. If, hypothetically speaking, having learned the truth, you feel inclined to compromise with their wishes, you will obviously be defying Divine Laws.

(10:87) Allah said to Moses and his brother: “You have to stay in Egypt for a while. You should start the programme for training your people to establish the Niz’am-us-Sal’at. For this purpose you should select some houses of those from amongst your people. Cheer them up with glad tidings of the blissful life which they would have.”

Lughaat Parwez

Qaabalahu: muqaabalah: he confronted him: came face to face: aqbala alaih: attended to him: aqbala alal amr: he engaged himself in that work and did not leave it: kept in front of him: taqaabala: they both came face to face: * the Qur’an says: ikhwana ala sururin mutaqabileen: 15:47 that is they will be seated on pedestals in front of each other.
Alqiblah: the actual meaning of this word is direction : or trend: but generally it means the direction one faces in prayer or namaaz: * which direction is faced: which is kept in front: the direction which is meant or in mind:
In the Deen, the qiblah has a particular significance: every system, every republic, every government has a center: towards which all refer: it creates a unity of thought and homogeneity of deed among them: this is actually the symbol of that system which has to be kept in mind all the time: by keeping it in view or mind one expresses his fidelity to that system: the qiblah or centre for the system of God could be only one: about which God has said: inna awwala baitiw wuzi’a linnasi lallazi bibakkata mubarakaw wa hudyal lil aalimeen: 3:95 the kaabah which has been made the symbol of guidance for all mankind: the particularity of which is: mun dakhalahu kaana aamana: 3:96 he who enters it , enters peace : the importance of the qiblah can be judged from the fact that following the qiblah has been likened to the following of Deen: surah Baqar says: wala-in aataital lazeena ootul kitaaba bikulli ayatan ma tabi-u qiblatika wama anta bi taabi-in qiblatahum wama baazuhum bi taabi-in qiblatah baaz….: 2:145 even if you present them with all the ayats or reasoning you can, even then they will not follow your qiblah: and neither will you follow theirs: and neither will they follow each other’s qiblah: at another place it is said: walan tarza unkal yahudu walan nasaaa hatta tat tatabih millatahum: 2:120
the Jews and the Christians will never be happy with you until you follow their way: this shows that qiblah is actually the symbol of religion or deen and following the qiblah means following the particular deen.
The momineen have been told that no matter which walk of life they belong to, in whichever part of the world, they must fix their direction towards their center (qiblah) : wa haisu ma kuntum fawallu wujuhakum: that is, keep your attention towards it : let your purpose in life be one, and this unity will form the basis of the unity of your millat (nation): the physical form of doing this is to face toward the qiblah in prayers: this is the truth which has been stressed must be followed: laisal birra un tuwallu wajuhakum qibalal mashriqi wal maghrib…..: 2:177 the path to elevation is not that you face east or west : if qibaal is considered as the plural of qiblah , then the ayat would mean that all the qiblahs in the east and the west, be they of whichever deen or nation, are in fact additional and not personal or in themselves: the things which symbolize a system are important so long as the systems are in place: when they are no longer present, the symbols also lose their significance: these symbols have been called sha-iril laah at another place: see heading shiin,ain, rah: but if the system is no longer present then the respect of the symbols became merely customary: this is the point that the Qur’an wants to make when it says that no matter where you are, keep your attention or direction towards your Deen: this will show as to where your fidelity lies: but this does not mean that turning towards the qiblah is an end in itself.
Then question is that when the system becomes invisible and people who are living individual lives but wish to establish a system, then what qiblah should be the center then? That is, where should collective life begin? The Qur’an has indicated to this fact too in the tale about the Bani Israeel where it is aid that We sent wahi towards ,Moosa that in these conditions : waj’alu buyutikum qiblataw wa aqeemus salaat: 10:87 make your homes the centre of salaat and begin the system of salaat from there: i.e. begin this system from your homes: gradually this system will encompass everybody and one qibla or centre will be established for everybody.
Baitul Maqaddas was the centre for the Jews: but the Jews confined the God’s Deen to their descendants only: therefore this centre also turned into their national centre: was no longer the centre for the mankind universally: not only the Jews, but no religion or nation had the concept of a universal bondage of humanity : conversely the Qur’an wanted to bring all mankind to one centre: thus it could not make any of the national centres the centre for all mankind: it could only make Kaabah the centre whose foundation was made to be laid by Hazrat Ibrahim for this very purpose: 2:127 this place was declared: masaabatan lin naasi wa aamanah: 2:125 that is, the sanctuary and center for all mankind: this was : sawa’a nil aakifu feehi wal baad:22:25 that is for the residents as well as for those who came from outside: it was made to benefit all mankind: 3:95 this was the purpose for which kaabah was made the centre of God’s Deen:
As far as the ummati muslimah is concerned, for fixing the qiblah the purpose has been said to be: wala zaalika ja’alnakum ummataw wasatan litakunu shuhada’a alan naasi wa yakunar rasulu alaikum shaheeda: 2:143 thus we have made you an international community so that you watch over the deeds of the nations of the world and the Prophet SAW becomes the watchman of your deeds: in this ayat, the purpose of the muslims ‘ purpose of life and modus operandi has been highlighted : kaabah has been made the centre so that the Deen becomes universal: and the duty of the followers of this Deen is to watch over the deeds of other nations of the world to see which nation does what for humanity: for this purpose a collective system is necessary: the center of this system is the Prophet SAW and after him, his real followers:

Until that system was in place, the purpose of the fixation of the qiblah was achieved: when it disappeared, neither did the status of the ummah (muslim nation) remained what it was nor the status of the qiblah as it was before.
To ingest soul into the “custom” of prayer and facing the qiblah the same system (the Qur’anic system )needs to be re-established: in the presence of the Qur’an ,the reinvigorating of that system is very easy: the Qur’an has perhaps been preserved so that the system always remains in this world and God forbid, if for some reason this system disappears, then it can be re-established with the help of the Qur’an: the world seems needy of a world order today: to establish a world order,a universal system is required: this system can be no other than the Islamic system: the day the world can understand this fact, a true new world order will be established: but what is first required is that the ummat which believes on the Qur’an establishes unity within itself and establishes such a system for itself : if there are different qiblahs for this ummah, or they remain divided into different sects ,then how can a universal qiblah be re-established?


by Waqas ⌂ @, UK, Tuesday, August 21, 2012, 11:26 (1825 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

salaam jawaid, all,

Whilst I agree with some points, there are various issues with those translations/understandings, but most can be identified using a word for word, such as corpus.quran.com


Dr Shabbir.

2:142 Those of little understanding among people say, “What has turned them from Jerusalem, the Qiblah that the Jews used to follow? Say, “To God belongs East and West. He guides to the straight path whoever wills (to be guided).”
[„They‟ = Jews..........

The Arabic of Quran says:
"....will say: "What has turned THEM from the qiblah which THEY were on it?" Say..."
THEM and THEY are referring to the same group.

2:143 "....And not We made the qiblah which thou were on it except that We make evident..."
Note the difference in translation yet same phrasing in Arabic.

2:144 "....so We will turn thee to a qiblah that will please thee...."

The verses clearly imply a change.

Unfortunately, posting such things on the restrictive ourbeacon forum would be difficult so the above issues will likely be repeated. Pity.


by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Tuesday, August 21, 2012, 15:20 (1824 days ago) @ Waqas

I disagree with the understanding of the physical direction and it is hard to see this when Jerusalem and kaaba are put into the verse when they are not there.
I will have words.


by Waqas ⌂ @, UK, Tuesday, August 21, 2012, 15:49 (1824 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

I also do not agree with the physical direction.

Although I am currently writing an article on it, I can give you my tentative understanding: the change in qiblah that the verses refer to is towards "al masjid al haram" / "the inviolable time of SJD/acknowledgement" - which is the name given for the special time-period of the inviolable shahr/months wherein certain regulations are in force, and the hajj/symposium occurs.
From Quran, we can clearly see the subject of hajj and al masjid al haram, kaaba etc only becomes relevant in the latter chapters. Prior to this the believers were at odds with those around them, but this change in qiblah/focus/direction/goal was about unifying believers with others for the common good. Being part of the inviolable time of SJD/acknowledgement was the perfect vehicle to achieve this. It seems to have worked well.


by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Tuesday, August 21, 2012, 17:07 (1824 days ago) @ Waqas

My understanding is that the Jews had their beliefs which were based on Torah and their hadith, and were directed to follow all the Divine commands in the Quran, which they refused to do. I will have to look at the hajj connection and look forward to your full article.


by Waqas ⌂ @, UK, Tuesday, August 06, 2013, 10:27 (1475 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

peace all,

I finished the article I referred to in this thread. The part on qiblah is quoted below, however it is best to actually read the full article.


Re: verses 2:142-2:150
change of qiblah - an understanding based on Quran
The information we can extract about the meaning of "qiblah", and the change, from these verses is as follows:
this new change is in some way related to guiding to a straight/establishing path, and making the believers a balanced/moderate community
the qiblah which they were on was a great test (i.e. difficult), except those God guided, and their belief in such was not going to be for nothing
in this case the qiblah happens to be AMAH, but there are potentially many other qiblah, as individuals could have their own qiblah
in 2:148 the usage of "wherever" is the ONLY time it appears without a close link to "turn+wajh+AMAH" therefore likens "wijhatun (direction/course/goal)" with "qiblah" and consequently likens AMAH to "race to the good" or at least we can say AMAH involves this. Furthermore, AQ implies each person may have their own "qiblah" in 2:145 then later in 2:148 says "for each is a wijhatun he turns towards it", strongly suggesting "qiblah" and "wijhatun" are being related as similar terms/concepts. Please re-read these verses as this is a key finding.
the effects of this change will be less debate from the people, lead to God completing His favour, aid guiding, and bringing you all together.
wherever one is they should turn their wajh/purpose/consideration in the direction of AMAH, and from the contexts that likley involves being oriented towards the truth of your Lord, the good, and uniting of believers
To me, "turning one's wajh in the sky" in 2:144 comes across as an idiom, so whilst it could be literally translated as "turning one's face IN the sky" it is implying one is directionless, aimless, floating/blowing in the wind, i.e. no plan/goal to progress, looking/searching for a way/resolution. Interestingly it is listed in 'Verbal Idioms of Quran' by Mustansir Mir but explained as he turned his face towards the heaven so often that it is added emphasis to say his face was IN the heaven, even though it literally is not. Perhaps, but that does not change the fact that it is taken by all to mean he was seeking guidance. The new qiblah resolves this, and is also pleasing, implying a possible easing of argumentation/hostility for the believers, which would tie in with "no debate against you".
As a side note, the only other use of "wly/turn" in these verses other than "turn+wajh" is 2:148 "...he turns towards it (wijhatun/course/goal)", which is primarily figurative and not taken physical-directional by anyone. This may help indicate the type of turning being referred to in these verses.

Based on the above, usage of the root QBL in AQ, CAD meanings, and the only other occurrence of "qiblah" in 10:87, in terms of likelihood for the meaning of "qiblah", in my view, are:
1) focal-point - focus/centre of interest or activity
2) direction - general aim or purpose; a general way in which someone/something is developing
3) point-of-approach - a way in which to approaching something
4) counteraction - to oppose and mitigate the effects of by contrary action

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