Continuation of Messengers( Rusuls)

by Ahsan Sarosh USA, Ohio, Friday, October 19, 2012, 02:36 (1828 days ago)

As seen from the following Ayaat would the messengers keep coming to rehearse Allah's verses?

007:035
"O ye Children of Adam! whenever there come to you messengers from among you, rehearsing My verses (Arabic: ayati) to you, those who are righteous and mend (their lives), on them shall be no fear nor shall they grieve"
There is nothing in the above verse to suggest the cessation of messengers. This verse is addressed to all the Children of Adam (pbuh) (including both you and me) and confirms the continuation of messengers.
What is also equally significant to note, is that the phrase 'O Children of Adam' (Arabic: Ya Bani Adama) has only been used in the Quran to denote generic guidance to all mankind. This guidance not only applied to previous generations, but also to the contemporaries of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and more importantly, to all the subsequent generations that would follow after him.
007:026
'O Children of Adam! We have indeed sent down to you clothing to cover your shame, and (clothing) for beauty and clothing that guards (against evil), that is the best. This is of the communications of God that they may be mindful'
007:027
'O Children of Adam! let not the Satan cause you to fall into affliction as he expelled your parents from the garden, pulling off from them both their clothing that he might show them their evil inclinations, he surely sees you, he as well as his host, from where you cannot see them. Surely We have made the Satans to be the guardians of those who do not believe'
007:031
'O Children of Adam! wear your beautiful apparel at every time and place of prayer: eat and drink: But waste not by excess, for God loves not the wasters'
Directives to the 'Children of Adam' above are reserved for all humankind, past, present and future.
Please also note the following verse:
044.003-5
“Lo! We revealed it on a blessed night - Lo! We are (Arabic: kunna) ever warning. Whereon every wise command is made clear as a command from Our presence - Lo! We are (Arabic: kunna) ever sending”
The Arabic word 'kunna' clearly refers to the fact that warnings 'are' being sent and to the reader implies that they have always been sent in the past (i.e. messengers have always been sent to man). There is no indication from these verses that future warnings have ceased but rather based on the past, the implication remains that such warning will continue. Please note how the Arabic word 'kunna' (verb and subject pronoun) are used in other verses such as 17:49.

Continuation of Messengers( Rusuls)

by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Friday, October 19, 2012, 15:20 (1828 days ago) @ Ahsan Sarosh USA

Passage is in PAST TENSE, not future!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do not be misled by those "rasuls" who want to falsely promote themselves .

Continuation of Messengers( Rusuls)

by Sarosh Ahsan USA, Ohio, Friday, October 19, 2012, 19:41 (1828 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

Thank you very much Bro.Jawaid for indicating the right " Tense".Can you pl elaborate the Ayaat if you have got some time for beginners like me? Thanks once again.

Continuation of Messengers( Rusuls)

by Sarosh Ahsan, USA, Sunday, October 21, 2012, 22:55 (1826 days ago) @ Sarosh Ahsan USA

Salam All While thanking Bro Jawaid for replying my post I had requested to elaborate the Ayaat further for my understanding. I know he may too busy to write. Can anybody or Bro Hamdani help me to understand by elaborating the Ayaat? Thanks

Continuation of Messengers( Rusuls)

by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Monday, October 22, 2012, 08:33 (1825 days ago) @ Sarosh Ahsan USA

Allah in His infinite wisdom knew that mankind had reached a certain level whereby His revealed message would and could be preserved in its original form. Previous revelations, for example the Taurat, had been corrupted so a new Nabi and Rasul [one and the same because without receiving revelation one cannot pass it on! Also, the Quran does not say that you can be one without the other, it ties the two inexorably together; two faces of a coin] had to be sent to give the pristine message again. When the message was 100% guaranteed to be preserved by Allah, since man could record it in written form, kitab, book, as well as in memory, there was/is/will be no need to send another messenger. The duty of the Messenger was to convey the message; IN ORDER TO BE A GIVER OF A MESSAGE YOU HAVE TO BE A RECEIVER OF A MESSAGE.

3:20 If they argue with you (O Messenger), tell them, “I have submitted to God; I and those who follow me.” Say to the People of the Scripture, and to those who have no Scripture, “Would you submit (to God)?” If they submit, then they have been guided but if they turn away, THEN YOUR DUTY IS ONLY TO CONVEY THE MESSAGE. God is Seer of His servants.


Concerning your verses; when mankind was in its infancy they would falter and lose their way. Instead of uniting and advancing, irrational vested interest, arrogance, false pride, greed, lust etc grabbed hold of some who then dragged themselves down as well as others. Where to find the right path? Man could work things out for himself but to economise his efforts, Allah said He would send Messengers with His message to guide us.

2:213 Mankind were one single community (but selfishness divided them). So, God sent Prophets as bearers of good news and warnings. He sent down with them the scripture in absolute truth that it might judge between people wherein they differed. But again, out of mutual rivalry, they divided themselves after all evidence of the Right had come to them! So, God shows the lighted road to those who would acknowledge the truth and thus resolve their disputes. And God guides to the straight road him who wills to be guided.
[Satan, the selfish desires, had rent asunder the unity of mankind. 2:36, 10:19. Using the perceptual and conceptual faculties in all humility help people achieve guidance, while selfishness, arrogance and blind following lead them astray. 2:170, 4:88, 6:56, 7:173, 7:179, 17:36, 27:80-81, 30:22, 37:113, 40:34-35, 41:17, 56:79]

He then told us about this in 7:35 which you quoted:-

7:35 O Children of Adam! (I HAD REVEALED in the early stages of human civilization that I will keep sending My guidance to you 2:213.) When Messengers of your own come to you narrating My messages, those who will live upright and mend their ways, will have nothing to fear or grieve.

We do not need another messenger, we still have the message, unless we want to:-

7:36 But those who reject Our revelations and scorn them, will dwell in the Hellfire to live therein, forever.

Or make up stories that there will be no more Nabi’s but only Rasuls! Again, the Quran answers this:-

7:37 Who can do a greater wrong than the one who invents lies about God, or belies His revelations? They get their due share according to the Law of Respite till Our couriers of death come to them saying, “Where are those on whom you called besides God?” They will respond, “They have left us hanging.” Then they will testify against themselves that they had been disbelievers.

We have already come across the following:-

33:40 Ma kana muhammadun aba ahadin min rijalikum walakin RASOOLA Allahi wakhatama ALNNABIYYEENA wakana Allahu bikulli shay-in AAaleeman
33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is God’s Messenger and the Closing Seal of all Prophets. God is Knower of all things.

What some people do is try to give Divine legitimacy to themselves by calling themselves a Rasul, while knowing full well that the office of Nabi is now sealed, stopped. The Quran shows us that the two are linked, one and the same, so why they do this is beyond me!:-

4:163Inna awhayna ilayka kama awhayna ila noohin waalnnabiyyeena min baAAdihi waawhayna ila ibraheema wa-ismaAAeela wa-ishaqa wayaAAqooba waal-asbati waAAeesa waayyooba wayoonusa waharoona wasulaymana waatayna dawooda zabooran
4:163 We have sent you the revelation as We sent it to Noah and the Prophets after him. We sent revelations to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and his progeny (the Tribes), Jesus, Job (Ayub), Jonah (Yunus), Aaron, and Solomon; and to David We gave Zaboor. [Zaboor = The Psalms = A book of Divine wisdom]
4:164 Warusulan qad qasasnahum AAalayka min qablu warusulan lam naqsushum AAalayka wakallama Allahu moosa takleeman
4:164 [We sent Our Messengers to all nations with a uniform Message] We have told you the stories of some in the Quran, of the others We have not. (However, all of them were assigned a Common Mission.) And God spoke directly to Moses
4:165 Rusulan mubashshireena wamunthireena li-alla yakoona lilnnasi AAala Allahi hujjatun baAAda alrrusuli wakana Allahu AAazeezan hakeeman
4:165 All these Messengers gave good news, as well as warning, so that humans would not have an argument against God, after the Messengers conveyed to them the guidance. God is Almighty, Wise.

Also, you cannot just read the Quran, propagate it to others and call yourself a Rasul!!!!!!!!!:-

Continuation of Messengers( Rusuls)

by Sarosh Ahsan USA, USA, Monday, October 22, 2012, 14:57 (1825 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

Very many thanks Bro Jawaid.I appreciate your help in understanding

Continuation of Messengers( Rusuls)

by abhishek0990 ⌂, Saturday, November 03, 2012, 18:45 (1813 days ago) @ Sarosh Ahsan USA

yes, correct sentence only can explain right meaning.

thanks

--
bde at http://www.packersmoversdirectory.net/

Continuation of Messengers( Rusuls)

by Quasim Hamdani, Chicago, Monday, October 22, 2012, 01:26 (1825 days ago) @ Ahsan Sarosh USA

Brother Ahsan, AA

The following verse clearly speak to Muhammad being the final prophet.

33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is God’s messenger and the Closing Seal (khatama) of all prophets. God is Knower of all things.

Continuation of Messengers( Rusuls)

by Damon, Pennsylvania, USA, Tuesday, October 23, 2012, 13:01 (1824 days ago) @ Quasim Hamdani

Dear Brother Quasim and other Salaat Forum Members, Salaamun 'Alaiykum.

Dear Brother Quasim, do you believe that our present understanding of 33:40 should be re-evaluated?

As far as my limited knowledge takes me, the Arabic word "Khatam" doesn't mean last or final and neither is the notion of "finality" the dominant or primary definition of the root word Kh-Ta-Ma which the word Khatam comes from.

The Arabic word for final is "Akhir" and the word for Last (in the sense of something or someone being last in a chain of sorts) is the same word but with the definite article "AL". So it is "AL-Akhir". Finality, end of something, the last or ultimate conclusion are the dominant and primary definitions of the root word Alif-Kha-Ra. I am only going by the Arabic Language and not issuing any interpretations at all.

In my mind, if Allah meant to say a certain person is the Last or Final Nabiyy then the term "Al-Akhir An-Nabiyyeen" is a definite and unquestionable term. It is unambiguous and not up for much debate as far as the meaning is concerned. But the term "khatam An-Nabiyyeen" does have some ambiguity attached to it and can be up for discussion concerning the actual understanding and interpretation of this term. Something tells me that Allah chooses His words wisely and very, very accurately in order to prevent any idea of ambiguity and/or misunderstanding of The Message.

Also, the Arabic word "Muhammad" isn't a proper noun or name like it has been arbitrarily taught to us. The actual word itself is really a Passive Participle according to Arabic Grammar and there is absolutely no record in existence of anyone having been named Muhammad BEFORE the advent of The Quran. It is only AFTER the advent of The Quran (and a couple of decades to boot) that people in The Arab Lands started to name their male offspring with the word Muhammad.

Again, this going strictly by The Arabic Grammar and nothing more.

Allah Hafiz,
Damon.

Continuation of Messengers( Rusuls)

by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Wednesday, October 24, 2012, 07:47 (1823 days ago) @ Damon

Looking at the uses of the word KHATAM in the Quran it means to seal something, usually the minds [referred to as hearts and hearing]. What is new and good for you makes no difference to those people who are blind, have irrational beliefs and practices and do not want to listen to the truth, let alone follow it.

In the Quranic sense, the term “seal” means stop, shut, close, and not a hallmark or stamp. In the hallmark understanding it would be possible for someone to be ‘commissioned’ by Allah, or ‘inspired’, if you like and say or bring forth something that can then be tested against the Quran, the ‘touchstone’, as being truthful and from Allah,. However, what is the point? If we have the Quran for all time, then the obvious understanding of khatam is as a seal, a closure on the receiving of revelation or ‘inspiration’ from Allah or ‘nature’, hence no more Nabi’s and Rasul’s, no more Messengers; the period of Messengership was over once the final and preserved Word of Allah was given to us.

If you want to take the meaning of inspiration in the sense of Einstein dreaming about travelling at the speed of light and then coming up with E=MC2, then this is missing a very big point. We can ponder over the universe and discover its mysteries, but Revelation is something that is extrinsic, from outside our ability to discover, hence we should not mix the two and see revelation as being attained by simple human inspiration.

Kh-Ta-Miim = To seal/stamp/imprint/impress, to secure/protect oneself against a thing, produce an impression or effect upon a thing, reach the end of a thing, cover over a thing, turn away/avoid/shun someone or something, to not understand, prevent the heart from believing, feign heedlessness.

2:7 God (His Law of Cause and Effect) has sealed their hearts and their hearing, and on their sight there is a veil. And theirs will be a tremendous suffering.
[Khatm or Taba‟ from God, seal on the hearts, is a natural consequence of one‟s deeds. Blind following, adamancy, being unjust due to selfish interests and arrogance render the human perception and reasoning unreceptive to Divine revelation. Thus, one loses sensitivity and the ability to perceive reality. It is easy to see how damaging this fall from the high stature of humanity can be, a tremendous suffering that is built-in as the logical consequence of such attitude. 4:88, 17:46, 18:57, 40:35, 45:23, 83:14]

6:46 (The exploiters of the masses think that they are smarter, and therefore, they deserve to take advantage of people 28:76-82.) Say, “Will you think? If God took away your hearing and your sight and sealed up your hearts, which god other than God could restore them to you? Note how We explain the verses by various facets, and note how they still turn away.

33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is God‟s Messenger and the Closing Seal of all Prophets. God is Knower of all things.

36:65 This Day We seal their mouths, but their hands speak to Us, and their feet bear witness to what they earned. [17:13, 75:14]

42:24 What! Do they say, “He has invented a falsehood about God”? But if God willed, He could seal up your heart (O Prophet). And God blots out falsehood and affirms the truth by His Words (laws). He is the Knower of all that is in the hearts. [10:16]

45:23 Have you ever noted him who makes his desires his god? Consequently, God lets him go astray despite his knowledge, seals up his hearing and his heart, and places a veil on his sight. Then who will lead him after he has left God? Will you not then remember (this admonition)? [17:36, 32:9, 46:26]

83:25 They will be given a refreshing drink of pure nectar, sealed.
83:26 The seal of it is musk. For all this, then, let every aspirant aspire. [57:20, 102:1]

Continuation of Messengers( Rusuls)

by Fatima @, Saturday, January 26, 2013, 18:19 (1729 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

Respected Brother Jawaid,

I appreciate your way of thinking( holistic), and agree with you many things you say, especially the meaning of Salat.
May Allah guide you further.

However, my perspective and doubt on this topic-

-Every Prophet is a Messenger( every Nabi is a Rasul) but not every messenger is a Prophet

-Messenger's job is to reinforce and 'refresh' the message of Allah which is consistent throughout history

-33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is God‟s Messenger and the Closing Seal of all Prophets. God is Knower of all things.

In this verse it says Muhammad is closing seal of all Prophets but not messengers( unless the 'and' means both here)

I personally think ( and i could be wrong) any person who 'reminds' or 're-establishes' the Laws of Allah- Quran is a messenger in a theoretical sense.

Please post your comments.

Thanks,
Fatima

Continuation of Messengers( Rusuls)

by jawaid ahmed @, Tuesday, January 29, 2013, 17:47 (1726 days ago) @ Fatima

There are some that use the messenger as a generic term to mean any person spreading the message of the Quran to humanity; whenever you present a Quranic verse you become a messenger [rasul]. I do not like this downgrading of the term. Some say that receiving wahi has ceased [messengers] but prophets have not and will come for all communities for all times, hence Ghulam Ahmed Mirza, Rashad Khalifa etc,. As I have shown from my ‘past tense’ outburst, they usually mistranslate the verses of the Quran to include the future when the correct tense is past, hence no new messengers or rasuls after Muhammad.

To my reading of the Quran the terms rasul and nabi are interlinked which means that you cannot be a true message giver [rasul] without receiving a message from Allah [nabi]. Anyone claiming to be a rasul starts spreading their own nonsense, just read GA Mirza or R.Khalifa to see how they still say God gave them some knowledge!

I have an article on nabi and rasul which I will try to find and post.

Continuation of Messengers( Rusuls)

by Quasim Hamdani, Chicago, Wednesday, October 24, 2012, 22:27 (1823 days ago) @ Damon

The Quran is the first and a trend setting book on the Arabic language. It changed the Arabic language from a remote, back water dialect to a global language. The cultural impact of the Quran is immense.

If Muhammad was not used as name before, then the Quran certainly changed that. The Quranic words like salaat, zakaat, iman, saum, kafir and many more have changed the way people think and relate to their environments.

The affects of the Quranic understanding continue to change our lives.

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