Brother Jawaid Ahmed...HudHud was not a bird...?

by Prof. Dawud Muusaa, Bareli India, Sunday, January 20, 2013, 02:43 (1674 days ago)

Dear Brother Jawaid Ahmed,

Really, HudHud was not a bird but a commander in the army of Prophet Suleman?
http://www.salaatforum.com/index.php?id=3006

Brother Jawaid Ahmed...HudHud was not a bird...?

by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Monday, January 21, 2013, 13:46 (1673 days ago) @ Prof. Dawud Muusaa

Glad we are up and running again.

No, Hud Hud was not a bird. I reasoned it out like this:-

Ask yourself if birds speak like human beings.
Ask yourself if birds have vocal chords.
Ask yourself if they have brains capable of thought which a Messenger may have ‘telepathetically’ read.
Ask yourself if birds speak then we have to suspend our logical, reasoning minds and believe in ‘miracles’.
Ask yourself why a Queen of the valley of ants [al-naml] is turned into an ant Queen.
Ask yourself why we call someone ‘bird brained’ to show their stupidity.
Ask yourself why we cannot believe in a person named after his tribe.

I also read the following which is taken from the Dictionary of the Quran by G.A Parwez.
Heh, daal, daal

Al-hudhud: the piegion who makes a lot of noise: any bird which speaks too much: it also means a particular bird: * but the hudhud mentioned in the tale of Hazrat Suleman was an officer of his army: 27:20 in those days men and even tribes were named after birds: this continues till today among the Christians: the names Fox and Lamb can still be found in abundance: even among the Hindus names like Tota Ram (Parrot Ram) and Chuhamal (Rat Mal) are still found: the Lissanul Arb says that jadahid was the name of a Yemeni tribe: and the Tajul Uroos says that hadad was the name of a king of Hameer who was a contemporary of Hazrat Suleman: al-hud hud in the Qur’an has appeared along with alif, and laam: this leads one to think that this was not the name of a man but he was so called in respect of his tribe.

Brother Jawaid Ahmed...HudHud was not a bird...?

by Prof. Dawud Muusaa Bareli India, Tuesday, January 22, 2013, 08:07 (1672 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

You Wrote :
No, Hud Hud was not a bird . I reasoned it out like this:-
Ask yourself if birds speak like human beings.

Please refer 27:16 :-

http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/27/16/default.htm

27:16 :-
Muhammad Asad
And [in this insight] Solomon was [truly] David’s heir; and he would say: “O you people! We have been taught the speech of birds , and have been given [in abundance] of all [good] things: this, behold, is indeed a manifest favour [from God]!”
M. M. Pickthall
And Solomon was David's heir. And he said: O mankind! Lo! we have been taught the language of bird , and have been given (abundance) of all things. This surely is evident favour.
Shakir
And Sulaiman was Dawood's heir, and he said: O men! we have been taught the language of bird , and we have been given all things; most surely this is manifest grace.
Yusuf Ali (Saudi Rev. 1985)
And Solomon was David's heir. He said: "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of bird , and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things: this is indeed Grace manifest (from Allah.)"
Yusuf Ali (Orig. 1938)
And Solomon was David's heir. He said: "O ye people! We have been taught the speech of birds ,and on us has been bestowed (a little) of all things: this is indeed Grace manifest (from God.)"
Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar
And Solomon inherited from David and he said: O humanity! We were taught the utterance of the birds and everything was given to us. Truly, this is clearly grace.
Wahiduddin Khan
Solomon succeeded David. He said, Know, my people, that we have been taught the speech of birds and endowed with all good things. Surely this is Gods manifest grace.
T.B.Irving
Solomon fell heir to David, and he said: "O mankind, we have been taught the speech of birds , and been given [a little] of everything. This is manifest bounty."
Al-Muntakhab
And then did Sulayman inherit Dawud's kingdom, spiritual insight and the prophetic office -attributes do not usually go from father to son- and there did he address his people, thus: "O you people" he said, "we have been gracefully taught the language of the birds , and we have been granted -by Allah- something of everything, and this is indeed His efficacious grace effecting the end for which it is given.
Progressive Muslims
And Solomon inherited from David, and he said: "O people, we have been taught how to understand the speech of birds and we have been given from everything. This is indeed an evident grace."
Abdel Haleem
Solomon succeeded David. He said, ‘People, we have been taught the speech of birds ,and we have been given a share of everything: this is a clearly a great favour.’
Abdul Majid Daryabadi
And Sulaiman inherited from Daud. And he said: O mankind! verily have been taught the diction of we birds and we have been vcuchsafed of every thing; and verily this is grace manifest.
Ahmed Ali
Solomon was heir to David, and he said: "O people, we have been taught the language of Tair, and have been given of everything. This is a clear favour indeed."
Aisha Bewley
Sulayman was Dawud´s heir. He said, ´Mankind! we have been taught the speech of birds and we have been given everything. This is indeed clear favour.´
Ali Ünal Solomon succeeded David. He would say (citing in gratitude God’s favors to him): "O people! We have been taught the language of birds and we have been granted (some portion) of everything (which God provides for His servants). Surely this is a conspicuous favor.
Ali Quli Qara'i
Solomon inherited from David, and he said, ‘O people! We have been taught the speech of the birds and we have been given out of everything. Indeed this is a manifest advantage.’
Amatul Rahman Omar
And Solomon succeeded David and he said, `O you people! we have been taught the language of the birds (and also the technique of horsemanship), and bestowed with everything (essential for us). This indeed is a distinct favour (of God and His grace).'
Hamid S. Aziz
And Solomon was David´s heir. He said, "O you people! We have been taught the language of birds ,and we have been given abundance; verily, this is manifest grace!"
Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali
And Sulayman was Dawud's heir, (Literally: inherited "from" Dawud "David") and he said, "O you mankind, we have been taught the language (Literally: the manner of pronunciation) of (the) birds , and we have been brought (much) of everything; surely this is indeed the evident Grace."
Muhammad Sarwar
Solomon became the heir to David. He said, "People, we have been taught the language of the birds and have been granted a share of everything. This indeed is a manifest favor (from God)".
Muhammad Taqi Usmani
And Sulaiman inherited (the traits of) Dawud and said, .O people we have been taught the speech of birds and all sorts of things are given to us. Indeed, this is the evident grace (of Allah).
Shabbir Ahmed'QXP
Solomon was David's heir in continuation of Allah's Revelation. He said, "O People! We have been given a great cavalry of ready horses with the best knowledge of training them, and given every blessing. This evidently is a great Bounty on our nation."
Syed Vickar Ahamed
And Sulaiman (Solomon) was to inherit after Dawood (David). He said: "O you people! We have been taught the language of birds , and to us is given (a little) of all things: Truly, this is (by Allah’s) clear Grace."
Umm Muhammad(Sahih International)
And Solomon inherited David. He said, "O people, we have been taught the language of birds and we have been given from all things. Indeed, this is evident bounty."
Farook Malik
Solomon succeeded David. He said: "O people! We have been taught the language of birds and given all sort of things. This is indeed a great blessing from Allah."
Dr. Munir Munshey
Sulaiman inherited from Daood and remarked, "Oh you people, we have been imparted the (special) knowledge about the language of the birds and we have been given all sorts of things. That is obviously a special gift."
Tahir-ul-Qadri
And Sulaiman (Solomon) succeeded Dawud (David) and said: ´O people, we have been taught the speech of birds (as well) and we have been granted everything. No doubt, this is most obvious Grace (of Allah).´
Dr. Kamal Omar
And Sulaiman inherited (the possessions and qualities of) Daud. And he said: “O mankind! We have been taught the language of the birds , and we have been bestowed from all things. Surely, this indeed: it is the evident grace!"
Bilal Muhammad
And Solomon was David’s heir. He said, "O you people, we have been taught the speech of birds and on us has been bestowed a little of all things. This is indeed grace manifest from God."
Maududi
And Solomon succeeded David and said: "O people, we have been taught the speech of birds and we have been endowed with all kinds of things. Surely this is a conspicuous favour (from Allah)."

Controversial, deprecated, or status undetermined works
Bijan Moeinian
When Solomon inherited David’s kingdom, he said [to his people]: “God has taught me to communicate with the birds and has granted me many talents & knowledge out of his grace [that I am sincerely grateful for.]
Faridul Haque
And Sulaiman became Dawud’s heir; and he said, “O people, we have indeed been taught the language of birds , and have been given from all things; this surely is a manifest favour.”
Hasan Al-Fatih Qaribullah
Solomon inherited David. He said: 'Know, my people, we have been taught the speech of birds and given everything. Surely, this is a clear bounty. '
Maulana Muhammad Ali
And Solomon was David’s heir, and he said: O men, we have been taught the speech of birds , and we have been granted of all things. Surely this is manifest grace.
Muhammad Ahmed - Samira
And Soliman inherited David, and he said: "You, you the people we had been taught the birds' speech (language)/logic, and we were given from every thing, that truly that it is (E) the grace/favour/blessing , the clear/evident ."
Sher Ali
And Solomon was heir to David. And he said, `O ye people, we have been taught the language of birds and we have had all necessary things bestowed upon us. This indeed is God's manifest Grace.'
Rashad Khalifa
Solomon was David's heir. He said, "O people, we have been endowed with understanding the language of the birds , and all kinds of things have been bestowed upon us. This is indeed a real blessing."
Hilali & Khan
And Sulaiman (Solomon) inherited (the knowledge of) Dawood (David). He said: "O mankind! We have been taught the language of birds , and on us have been bestowed all things. This, verily, is an evident grace (from Allah)."

Non-Muslim and/or Orientalist works
Arthur John Arberry
And Solomon was David's heir, and he said, 'Men, we have been taught the speech of the birds , and we have been given of everything; surely this is indeed the manifest bounty.'
Edward Henry Palmer
And Solomon was David's heir; and said, 'O ye folk! we have been taught the speech of birds , and we have been given everything; verily, this is an obvious grace!'
George Sale
And Solomon was David's heir; and he said, O men, we have been taught the speech of birds , and have had all things bestowed on us; this is manifest excellence.
John Medows Rodwell
And in knowledge Solomon was David's heir. And he said, "O men, we have been taught the speech of birds , and are endued with everything. This is indeed a clear boon from God."
N J Dawood (draft)
Solomon succeeded David. He said: 'Know, my people, we have been taught the tongue of birds and endowed with all good things. Surely this is the signal favour.'

Brother Jawaid Ahmed...HudHud was not a bird...?

by jawaid ahmed @, Thursday, January 24, 2013, 09:56 (1670 days ago) @ Prof. Dawud Muusaa Bareli India

The Quran says nothing that goes against known, proven scientific facts.

Allegorical verses that speak about ‘fantastic’ occurrences have been mentioned in the Quran according to Surah 3 verse 7 and we must treat them as symbolic and not as literal.

The verses relating to Solomon, the ‘birds’ and ‘ants’ are literal and cannot be treated as allegorical, hence they cannot go against known scientific facts.

Facts: Birds do not speak, they do not have vocal chords, they do not have brains that can form sentences. So al-tair cannot be birds.

Facts: Queen ants do not come out of their homes, they remain well within their structures. When ant hills/homes are stepped upon they do not hide away in them [Surah 27:18. At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants said: "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it."] BUT they attack anything that ‘attacks’ them [please try this and see!]. So the Quran saying they ran into their homes means they cannot be ants.

Fact: Allah gave the ability of comprehension, consciousness, speech etc to Adam, mankind [surah 2, verses 30-39] BUT did not say he gave this ability to birds or ants.

I can only say that this is my understanding and quoting many translators to prove they are all right is like asking 600 million Hindus about idol worship, so they are all right as well.

If you want to accept and agree with the conventional meaning of talking birds and ants you are making the Quran contradict known science, so to you your way, to me mine, for I do not accept this.

Brother Jawaid Ahmed...HudHud was not a bird...?

by Syed Ijlal Hussain ⌂ @, Karachi - Pakistan, Wednesday, March 20, 2013, 13:43 (1615 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed

I am neither saying hudhud was a bird, nor refuting hudhud was not a man. All I want to sate here is you said it is a scientific fact that birds don't have vocal cords. I shall not even contest this as I am not a zoologist. I just want to understand how parrots and mynas are able to mimick human speech.

Thank you.

Brother Jawaid Ahmed...HudHud was not a bird...?

by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Monday, April 22, 2013, 07:34 (1582 days ago) @ Syed Ijlal Hussain

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vocal_folds

Physiologically birds have different parts to humans in their sound production. “Not having vocal cords” was meant to be in conjunction with the brains of birds being unable to connect with these to produce sentences which they are unable to think about beforehand. Parrots can mimic sounds and can be taught to respond in specific ways to a stimulus, but ask them what time of day it is and they will not be able to think in order to form a response.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talking_bird
It is mimicry, not speach.

Brother Jawaid Ahmed...HudHud was not a bird...?

by Dr Zakiya Ansari DM, India, Wednesday, January 23, 2013, 15:28 (1671 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

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