Location of 105:1-5

by Mona mir., ., Tuesday, August 13, 2013, 11:21 (1467 days ago)

Somebody will tell me about the location of 105:1-5

Location of 105:1-5 | Ponder Alam Tara ...

by Rais Shaikh. India, ., Thursday, August 15, 2013, 06:08 (1465 days ago) @ Mona mir.

105:01
Alam Tara =
Are you not aware !!
These two words tell us Location if we will Ponder !!

Location of 105:1-5

by amirabbas, Iran, Thursday, August 15, 2013, 07:17 (1465 days ago) @ Mona mir.

From QXP:

Surah 105. Al-Feel – The Elephant

[Author’s Note] Good panning and timely action can ward off a strong invasion.

This brief Surah has a very interesting history behind it. As we have seen in the history of the Empire of Sheba (Surahs An-Naml 27, Saba 34, and Qaaf 50), the Kingdom of Sheba had collapsed in 115 BC. They were overtaken by the Himairis who ruled until 300 CE when other tribes overtook the control of Yemen. They were in turn defeated by the Christian Kingdom of Ethipoia-Abyssinia when they invaded Yemen in 525 CE. Abrahah was then appointed Viceroy of Yemen.

The Roman and the Abyssinian Christians longed for converting the idolaters of Arabia to Christianity. They also sought control of the trade routes between Arabia, Persia and the western Roman Empire. They saw Ka’bah in Makkah as a hindrance to their imperialistic and religious designs. Abrahah, the Viceroy of Yemen made a smart move. Between 550 and 555 CE he built a gorgeous cathedral EKKLESIA in San’aa,
Yemen, and invited people and neighboring countries to come for pilgrimage there instead of going to Makkah. When Ekklesia remained unpopular, Abrahah decided to invade Makkah and demolish the Ka’bah.

Since he correctly anticipated the presence of hostile tribes en-route, he came up with a 60,000 Strong army aided by thousands of horses, camels and thirteen elephants.

I agree with the research of Hamiduddin Farahi, Amin Ahsan Islahi and G.A.Parwez on what eventually happened. As Abrahah’s army approached Makkah, the Makkans who had been alerted by some travelers beforehand, saw flocks of birds that normally fly over caravans in search for food. The Makkans mounted the hills around and threw
stones on the troops. The elephants, and in turn, other rides panicked and trampled the soldiers. This incident took place in 570 CE when the exalted messenger was born. The event carried such significance that the Arabs, in their Calendar, marked it as the “Year of the Elephant” (‘Aam-il-Feel) as a point of reference in history.
...
If you are not satisfied, you can always find other sources with a simple search in Google (or other search engines!).

Location of 105:1-5

by Jose Rizalino Sarmiento @, saudi arabia, Sunday, September 01, 2013, 19:40 (1447 days ago) @ amirabbas

Most people got it wrong when interpreting 105:1-5 the reason being they can not think out of the box and just follow what was in the tafsirs of traditionalist scholars. If one would examine closely the surah in question, the word sijil is the clue..this same sijil annihilated prophet Lot's people..God tells us in the Qur'an that Lot's location was not far from where the prophet (saw) reside by hinting "you passed by it they and night" which indicates the proximity of the place..otherwise, how can you pass by a place day and night if it's far..now, this means the prophet lived in the same town or same geographical area..ovbiously, the place is not the present day Makkah as traditionalists and corrupt ulamas would have you believe..you have to search for the truth yourself..it is all in the Qur'an..

Location of 105:1-5

by Jose Rizalino Sarmiento @, Monday, September 02, 2013, 03:18 (1447 days ago) @ Jose Rizalino Sarmiento

Typing corretion: "you passed by it day and night"...

Location of 105:1-5

by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Monday, September 02, 2013, 15:45 (1447 days ago) @ Jose Rizalino Sarmiento

Petra was the capital of the Nabataeans and the center of their caravan trade.

The Arabs were traders who frequented the well known caravan routes.

Thus, Arabs passed by this important caravan centre “day and night”.

When the Quran says something it does not always use the straight forward literal sense which means you may not take the passing by it day and night as meaning the people of the Messenger lived near to the area of the events described.

Location of 105:1-5

by vazir, Tuesday, September 03, 2013, 00:59 (1446 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

Sodom and Gomorrah? They Will Never Find It.
http://rambambashi.wordpress.com/2011/03/22/sodom-and-gomorrah-they-will-never-find-it/

Even BIG HOLE in Misr = Egypt theory:

So Far’awn sent gatherers to the towns * ….. * 57 So, We evicted them out of gardens and springs * 58 And treasures and an honorable station *59 As such, We made the Children of Israel inherit it all. [Quran, 26:53-59]

Quran clearly states that the Children of Israel were eventually made successors in the same land in which Far’awn and his people lived, where they have gardens, springs, treasures and an honorable station.

Have you ever heard of Israelite king of the Egypt?

And We let the people who were weak inherit the east of the land and the west of it which We have blessed. And the good word of your Rabb was completed towards the Children of Israel for their patience; and We destroyed what Far‘awn and his people had wrought and what they had built. [Quran, 7:137]

Quran states, in clear and undisputed terms, that Allah eventually destroyed what Far‘awn and his people had built, and what they had worked so hard to achieve and acquire. And yet, we can see the great Pyramids built by rulers of Egypt, still standing!

Location of 105:1-5

by amirabbas, Iran, Wednesday, September 04, 2013, 10:50 (1445 days ago) @ vazir

So, we can conclude that those great Pyramids have been built after the departure of Jews from Egypt!

7:137 We made the oppressed people inherit the east and the west of the land that We had blessed with abundant provision. The commands of your Lord were fulfilled for the Children of Israel to reward them for their steadfastness. Pharaoh and his people eventually met destruction for violating Our laws. And We leveled to the ground (the great works and fine buildings, temples, palaces, tombs, statues and stately) structures of all kinds that Pharaoh and his people had built with so much skill and pride. [The Children of Israel later inherited a sizeable and highly prosperous kingdom including Syria and Palestine under David and Solomon]

Location of 105:1-5

by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Thursday, September 05, 2013, 07:55 (1444 days ago) @ vazir

You wrote:
So Far’awn sent gatherers to the towns * ….. * 57 So, We evicted them out of gardens and springs * 58 And treasures and an honorable station *59 As such, We made the Children of Israel inherit it all. [Quran, 26:53-59]
Quran clearly states that the Children of Israel were eventually made successors in the same land in which Far’awn and his people lived, where they have gardens, springs, treasures and an honorable station.
Have you ever heard of Israelite king of the Egypt?

My reply:

26:53 In the meantime, Pharaoh sent couriers to the cities,
26:54 "This is a low contemptible gang.
26:55 Cetainly, they have enraged us.
26:56 And we are an army ready to repel any danger."
26:57 Then, We drove them (Pharaoh and his chiefs) out of the gardens and springs,
26:58 And treasures, lofty positions and beautiful estate. [Soon to be drowned in hateful pursuit of Moses and his followers]
26:59 Thus those things were taken away from them and We caused the Children of Israel to inherit the blessings.
[Instead of returning to Egypt they would rule the land including Sinai, Jordan, Palestine, Northern Arabian Peninsula until their zenith during the times of David and Solomon about 940 BC. 7:136:137, 20:76-80]

You wrote:
And We let the people who were weak inherit the east of the land and the west of it which We have blessed. And the good word of your Rabb was completed towards the Children of Israel for their patience; and We destroyed what Far‘awn and his people had wrought and what they had built. [Quran, 7:137]

MY reply:
7:137 We made the oppressed people inherit the east and the west of the land that We had blessed with abundant provision. The commands of your Lord were fulfilled for the Children of Israel to reward them for their steadfastness. Pharaoh and his people eventually met destruction for violating Our laws. And We levelled to the ground (the great works and fine buildings, temples, palaces, tombs, statues and stately) structures of all kinds that Pharaoh and his people had built with so much skill and pride. [The Children of Israel later inherited a sizeable and highly prosperous kingdom including Syria and Palestine under David and Solomon]

Wikipedia Ramesis II By the time of his death, aged about 90 years, Ramesses was suffering from severe dental problems and was plagued by arthritis and hardening of the arteries.He had made Egypt rich from all the supplies and riches he had collected from other empires. He had outlived many of his wives and children and left great memorials all over Egypt, especially to his beloved first queen Nefertiti. Nine more pharaohs took the name Ramesses in his honour, but none equalled his greatness.Nearly all of his subjects had been born during his reign. Ramesses II did become the legendary figure he so desperately wanted to be, but this was not enough to protect Egypt. New enemies were attacking the empire, which also suffered internal problems and could not last indefinitely. Less than 150 years after Ramesses died the Egyptian empire fell and the New Kingdom came to an end.


You wrote:
Quran states, in clear and undisputed terms, that Allah eventually destroyed what Far‘awn and his people had built, and what they had worked so hard to achieve and acquire. And yet, we can see the great Pyramids built by rulers of Egypt, still standing!

My reply:
They had an empire-that is gone.
They lived in palaces- now ruins.
They worshipped in vast temple complexes- not anymore.
What part of what they achieved is still in working order?

Location of 105:1-5

by vazir, Friday, September 06, 2013, 12:51 (1443 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

And he said: "My sons, do not enter from one gate, but enter from separate gates; and I cannot avail you anything against Allah, for the judgment is to Allah. In Him I place my trust, and in Him those who place their trust should trust." [Quran, 12:67]

Ya‘qūb (P) advised his children to enter Miṣr from different gates to avoid attention to them. The question is: Was Egypt surrounded by a wall that had several gates leading into it?

Erecting a wall with various gates is only possible in fortified towns (citadels), not around entire lands or geographical regions!

Are there any evidences exist to prove that Egypt was ever surrounded by wall like wall of china?

Location of 105:1-5

by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Monday, September 09, 2013, 13:12 (1440 days ago) @ vazir

12:67 And he said, “O My sons! Do not enter the town all by one gate, but enter by different gates. Yet, I cannot avail you against the Divine laws. (So, handle all situations accordingly.) Rule and law-giving belongs to God alone. In Him I trust, and everyone must place trust in Him since the Divine laws never change."

Different gates could easily mean by different routes, from different directions and does not mean that the town had gates. Having said this, most ancient towns/cities had an area that could be closed off during times of danger when the citizens could lock themselves in behind gates. I see no reason why Egyptian cities did not have this facility, particularly when they were always at war.

The following shows the understanding that they were to enter a town/city, not a land as you have described. Where do you get the idea that any of us believe in a great wall of Egypt? No one I have read believes this and the town wall with gates is a perfectly sensible scenario:-

12:68 When they went, they entered the town as their father instructed. Jacob was quite right that even he (a Prophet of God) could not avail them against the Divine laws. It was a duty that he did (giving the correct advice to his sons), although it could not prevent what was to happen (with Benjamin 12:75-81). He was, by Our instruction, full of knowledge. But most people do not know.
12:69 When they met with Joseph, he brought his brother closer to him and said, "I am your brother, do not grieve about what they have been doing to us."

Location of 105:1-5

by Jose Rizalino Sarmiento @, saudi arabia, Monday, September 16, 2013, 15:45 (1433 days ago) @ vazir

Quote:

And he said: "My sons, do not enter from one gate, but enter from separate gates; and I cannot avail you anything against Allah, for the judgment is to Allah. In Him I place my trust, and in Him those who place their trust should trust." [Quran, 12:67]

Ya‘qūb (P) advised his children to enter Miṣr from different gates to avoid attention to them. The question is: Was Egypt surrounded by a wall that had several gates leading into it?

Erecting a wall with various gates is only possible in fortified towns (citadels), not around entire lands or geographical regions!

Are there any evidences exist to prove that Egypt was ever surrounded by wall like wall of china?


salam
just hopping in.. :-)

Egypt has no fortifications or walls of sort in its entire history..the country was wide open. If there is, there should have been records of it.

I agree with you that Misr could mean any town which is heavily fortified, a citadel..do you know where you can find citadels? in present day Yemen..there's a place there, sorry I forgot its name, with walls made of bricks five feet thick and ten feet high!.. obviously a very likely candidate for Msr of the Qur'an.
And I may add, I have a strong feeling that the beloved prophet Muhammad was a Yemeni arab..and that the children of Israel did inherit the land from fir'awn and this land was none other than ancient Yemen. In fact there is a considerable population of Jews inhabiting Yemen..after the Arab-Israeli war, more than 50,000 jews migrated to what is now Palestine not because it is their original homeland, but more of financial reasons and the desire for a goodly life.

Location of 105:1-5

by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Tuesday, September 17, 2013, 12:46 (1432 days ago) @ Jose Rizalino Sarmiento

So the whole history of Jews in Palestine, the Babylonian and Persian wars [with evidence from extra Biblical writings on stele], etc., is totally fictitious?

We have Solomon marching toward Sheba [Yemen] so he must have been somewhere else in order to march there.

We have those who believe in a Petra designation for the Last Messenger, others the Baca valley in Lebanon, others in the Dead Sea area, now Yemen.

Just a thought, since there is no evidence for any of these geographical whereabouts of the man, then this means it is nothing but unfounded conjecture!

Location of 105:1-5

by vazir, Wednesday, September 18, 2013, 23:58 (1430 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

Evidences?

Sir, there are lot of evidences, if anyone wants to see.

Just read and reflect on these archaeological evidences and then read the Qur`anic narrations and matter will become clear:

Queen of Sheba's temple restored
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1082648.stm

Just think, if temple of Sheba was in Marib, Yemen and was merged with Kingdom of Solomon, where can it be: somewhere in / near Yemen or in Palestine?

ANCIENT EGYPT KNEW NO PHARAOHS
http://ashraf62.wordpress.com/ancient-egypt-knew-no-pharaohs/

Now, remember what Qur'an is saying about land of Misr:
So Far’awn sent gatherers to the towns * ….. * 57 So, We evicted them out of gardens and springs * 58 And treasures and an honorable station *59 As such, We made the Children of Israel inherit it all. [Quran, 26:53-59]

Qur'an talks about corruption of Bible, have you thought about what was geographic corruption?

THE ARK OF THE COVENANT : EVIDENCE SUPPORTING THE ETHIOPIAN TRADITIONS
http://www.ethiopianorthodox.org/amharic/holybooks/arkofthecovenent.pdf

Read the details of evidences mentioned in `Kebra Nagast`, where was Mt. Sinai and possible location of `Misr` and Old Jerusalem.

Location of 105:1-5

by Jose Rizalino Sarmiento @, saudi arabia, Monday, September 23, 2013, 19:40 (1425 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

You're correct. Since we don't have any concrete evidence with regards to the prophet's whereabouts in history or archaeology, all theories proposed are mere conjectures.

Location of 105:1-5

by vazir, Friday, September 06, 2013, 13:27 (1443 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

And Lūṭ was one of the messengers * When We saved him and all his family * Except an old woman who perished * Then, We destroyed the rest. * And indeed you (Plural) surely pass by their ruins in the morning; * And in the night. Do you (Plural) not comprehend? [37: 133 - 138].

You (Plural) - who are addressed here, People of Makkah or Traders of Makkah?

So when Our command came, We turned it (Lūṭ’s town) upside down, and We rained on it fiery clay projectiles * Marked from your Rabb, and it is not far from the Wicked. [11:82-83].

Wicked (Plural): Who are these people, Traders or disbelievers of Makkah?

Even if we assume that Qur'anic verse addressing TRADERS, consider the Ariel distance between Makkah and Dead Sea which is more than 1100 Kilometers. How frequently the traders of Makkah can travel by ruins on camel back? Can the expression "By day and by night" justify the frequency of travel by ruins of town of Lut AH?

It is amazing that we accuse traditional translators to insert words in bracket to justify their accepted notions and we do same to explain preconceived history.

Location of 105:1-5

by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Monday, September 09, 2013, 13:45 (1440 days ago) @ vazir

What you are saying is that the Quran was revealed in or around the area of the Dead Sea and not Makkah and Medina.

Have you any proof that those in that area spoke the language of the Quran since it was revealed in Arabic to Arabs and not to Hebrew speakers who frequented the Dead Sea area?

You wrote

And Lūṭ was one of the messengers * When We saved him and all his family * Except an old woman who perished * Then, We destroyed the rest. * And indeed you (Plural) surely pass by their ruins in the morning; * And in the night. Do you (Plural) not comprehend? [37: 133 - 138].
You (Plural) - who are addressed here, People of Makkah or Traders of Makkah?

My reply
So all the people passed by the ruins? Have you seen the ruins at Petra? Is it feasible that the recipients of the Quran walked by them on their way to and from work?

You wrote
So when Our command came, We turned it (Lūṭ’s town) upside down, and We rained on it fiery clay projectiles * Marked from your Rabb, and it is not far from the Wicked. [11:82-83].
Wicked (Plural): Who are these people, Traders or disbelievers of Makkah?

My reply

There is a better understanding of verses 11:82-83 from the one you presented:-

11:82 And so, when Our command came to pass, We brought low the highly arrogant towns (Sodom and Gomorrah), and rained down upon them hard devastating rocks (from the volcano).
11:83 The stones were marked arrows from your Lord. His requital is never far from those who choose to do wrong.

It means any wicked person will be punished, not just the people of Lut or the Mushrik Arabs.


You wrote:-

Even if we assume that Qur'anic verse addressing TRADERS, consider the Ariel distance between Makkah and Dead Sea which is more than 1100 Kilometers. How frequently the traders of Makkah can travel by ruins on camel back? Can the expression "By day and by night" justify the frequency of travel by ruins of town of Lut AH?

MY reply
The meaning is by day and by night, not in the morning and in the night as you have written. I work day and night, which means I work long hours, not every hour of the day [24/7, no, 10 hours a day, yes.]

You wrote

It is amazing that we accuse traditional translators to insert words in bracket to justify their accepted notions and we do same to explain preconceived history.

My reply

Have you any evidence against the ‘traditional translators’ on this issue or is your understanding of the Quran clouding the scene?

Location of 105:1-5

by vazir, Tuesday, September 10, 2013, 00:09 (1439 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

My post was intended to say that Qur'an is talking about PEOPLE of Makkah and NOT TRADERS of Makkah as mentioned in your post.

But, I will try to answer your objections:

You wrote:
What you are saying is that the Qur'an was revealed in or around the area of the Dead Sea and not Makkah and Medina.

Have you any proof that those in that area spoke the language of the Qur'an since it was revealed in Arabic to Arabs and not to Hebrew speakers who frequented the Dead Sea area?

My reply:
Did I say that Qur'an was revealed near Dead Sea / Petra? You are putting your words in my mouth.

You wrote:
So all the people passed by the ruins? Have you seen the ruins at Petra? Is it feasible that the recipients of the Qur'an walked by them on their way to and from work?

My reply:
Did I say that ruins are at Petra? These are your words, not mine.

When Qur'an is telling us that people, where Qur'an was revealed, were passing by ruins means they were passing by it, I do not need any proof to believe in this notion. But, if we stick to current belief then it is not feasible and that is my question. Either verse of Qur'an is not making geographical sense or our current belief that town of Lut was near Dead Sea / Petra is wrong.

You wrote:
There is a better understanding of verses 11:82-83 from the one you presented:-

11:82 And so, when Our command came to pass, We brought low the highly arrogant towns (Sodom and Gomorrah), and rained down upon them hard devastating rocks (from the volcano).
11:83 The stones were marked arrows from your Lord. His requital is never far from those who choose to do wrong.

It means any wicked person will be punished, not just the people of Lut or the Mushrik Arabs.

My reply:
I do agree with translation, you mentioned, that people of Lut were destroyed by volcanic eruption. Now, logical question comes to mind is: IS THERE ANY VOLCANIC PICK EXISTING NEAR DEAD SEA?

I understand that “wicked people” mentioned in verse are "people of Makkah" who were persecuting believers of Qur'an.

You wrote:
The meaning is by day and by night, not in the morning and in the night as you have written. I work day and night, which means I work long hours, not every hour of the day [24/7, no, 10 hours a day, yes.]

My reply:
My questions on this point are self-explanatory that “By day and night” means “frequently”. It only means that town of Lut cannot be 1100 Kilometers far from Makkah.

You wrote:
Have you any evidence against the ‘traditional translators’ on this issue or is your understanding of the Quran clouding the scene?

My reply:
Just show me one translation without writings in brackets, whether traditional or reformist. Writings in brackets are clouding the understanding of Qur'an. My point here is of heavy reliance on writings in brackets which are used to justify preconceived notion(s).

In short, Qur'an is clearly telling us that ruins of town of Lut were sign of punishment to see for disbelievers of Qur'an i.e. people of Makkah. So, logically both places should be nearby. That’s all. Where they were located? I don’t know. Future archaeological excavations may answer the question, but I am sure that, on that day, verses of Qur'an will be proved correct and our current understanding wrong.

Note: I am aware that some members of free-mind.org have position that Qur'an was revealed in Petra. But, I do not believe in that position and I see many erroneous assumptions and inferences in their argument. Just for clarification.

Location of 105:1-5

by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Tuesday, September 10, 2013, 07:30 (1439 days ago) @ vazir

http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/200602/volcanic.arabia.htm

Thank you for the Petra clarification.

I found the above website on volcanic eruptions in Arabia and if we believe that the people of Lut were destroyed by a volcano then an Arab based location near Medina is feasible.

Location of 105:1-5

by Jose Rizalino Sarmiento @, saudi arabia, Monday, September 16, 2013, 14:36 (1433 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

> Petra was the capital of the Nabataeans and the center of their caravan trade.


The Arabs were traders who frequented the well known caravan routes.

Thus, Arabs passed by this important caravan centre “day and night”.

When the Quran says something it does not always use the straight forward literal sense which means you may not take the passing by it day and night as meaning the people of the Messenger lived near to the area of the events described.

Salam..I beg to disagree with you..the caravan route starts from Arabia Felix (Yemen):

Frankincense and myrrh, higly prized in antiquity as fragrances, could only be obtained from trees growing in Arabia Felix (Yemen), Ethiopia, and Somalia. Arab merchants brought these goods to Roman markets by means of camel caravans along what is known as the Incense Route. The Incense Route originally commenced at Shabwa in Hadramaut, the easternmost kingdom of Yemen, South Arabia, and ended at Gaza, a port north of the Sinai Peninsula on the Mediterranean Sea. Both the camel caravan routes across the deserts of Arabia and the ports along the coast of south Arabia (e.g. al Mukha, Aden, al Mukalla) were part of a vast trade network covering most of the world then known to Greco-Roman geographers as Arabia Felix. South Arabian merchants utilized the Incense Route to transport not only frankincense and myrrh but also spices, gold, ivory, pearls, precious stones, and textiles--all of which arrived at the local ports from Africa, India, and the Far East. The geographer Strabo compared the immense traffic along the desert routes to that of an army. The Incense Route ran along the western edge of Arabia's central desert about 100 miles inland from the Red Sea coast; Pliny the elder stated that the journey consisted of sixty five stages divided by halts for the camels. Both the Nabataeans and the South Arabians grew tremendously wealthy through the transport of goods destined for lands beyond the Arabian Peninsula.
Now, when the Qur'an speaks of a certain place or the whereabouts of a place it doesn't use allegories..what is meant is what is meant..
Salam

Location of 105:1-5

by vazir, Monday, September 16, 2013, 22:58 (1432 days ago) @ Jose Rizalino Sarmiento

Archaeologists find statue of ancient Yemeni queen
[18/March/2009]

DHAMAR, March 18 (Saba) – A Yemeni archaeologist team has discovered a mosaic statue of a women sitting on a throne with here chest engraved with Musnad letters.

The archaeologists also found other relics including a stone board with faith signs engraved on it.

Two pulls separated by a tree were carved on the stone board, a symbol that was know as "Life's Tree" in ancient Yemeni civilization, director of the authority Ali al-Sanabani said.

Other symbols like crescent were imprinted on found relics.

The discoveries were revealed during excavations at a site in Dhamar province where the team found buildings that were used to give sacrifices.

Al-Sanabani expected the site is a trace of the Yatrib city of the Sheba civilization.

Source: http://www.sabanews.net/en/news178696.htm

Isn't this interesting for Yemen theory?

Location of 105:1-5

by Jose Rizalino Sarmiento @, saudi arabia, Monday, September 23, 2013, 17:26 (1425 days ago) @ vazir

Very interesting indeed. Thanks for the link.

Location of 105:1-5

by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Thursday, August 15, 2013, 07:47 (1465 days ago) @ Mona mir.

105:1-5 is in the Quran. Do you mean who or what is being referred to in these verses?

105:1 Are you not aware of how your Lord dealt with the Army of the Elephant?
105:2 Did He not bring their strategy to utter failure?
105:3 And sent upon them swarms of flying creatures.
105:4 Then you showered them with hard stones earmarked with requital. [Sijjeel = Inscribed = Marked out]
105:5 And made them like a field of grain eaten down to stubble.

We have one story relating to Abrahah:-

[An interesting footnote here might be appropriate. Three Arabs had guided Abrahah on his way to Makkah through the desert. The pre-Islamic Makkans humiliated the traitors and made out three statutes of them in today's plains of Mina outside Makkah. Then they used to stone those statues every year at the time of Pilgrimage. This ritual was 'Islamized' by Muslim historians naming them as three places where the 'Satan' tried to prompt Prophet Abraham to defy God's command to 'sacrifice' his son. And so, to this day during Pilgrimage, Muslims stone the three pillars calling them the Great, the Medium, and the Small Satan!]

One account says smallpox came to the Arabian lands following this incident with Abrahah; if Abrahah’s army brought smallpox with them then this accounts for the ‘earmarked stone’ marks on their faces and their deaths as a result of this disease. Birds being drawn to the bodies and these were seen by the Makkans who were alerted to the danger.
[I knew someone who had smallpox as a child, sadly he was not a pretty sight]


Another understanding comes from other verses of the Quran which describe the destruction of people from an earthquake which sent rocks and stones tumbling down upon them, and may be referring to the people of Petra. At Petra there are huge columns topped with elephant head carvings.
More research is needed.

Location of 105:1-5

by Adv. AbdusSamad, India, Thursday, August 15, 2013, 14:12 (1465 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

Can Elephant travel in desert?

Location of 105:1-5

by vazir, Thursday, August 15, 2013, 16:17 (1465 days ago) @ Adv. AbdusSamad

Read from page number 110 to 117 from e-Book topic titlled "The People of Lot":
http://www.scribd.com/doc/132844965/ARABIA-The-Untold-Story-Book-2-Road-of-the-Patriarch

Location of 105:1-5

by jawaid ahmed, uk @, Thursday, August 15, 2013, 17:09 (1464 days ago) @ Adv. AbdusSamad

http://nabataea.net/elephants.html

Alexander may have travelled across deserts with them and elephants in Africa do so

http://www.thegreatprojects.com/projects/desert-elephants-in-namibia?gclid=CMXogr_4_7gC...

Location of 105:1-5

by Adv. AbdusSamad, India., Thursday, August 15, 2013, 18:07 (1464 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed, uk

But Location of Makkah is not mentioned in 105:1-5 then why why both N1I & N2I are trying to fix the Location as Makkah?

Location of 105:1-5

by vazir, Friday, August 16, 2013, 01:35 (1464 days ago) @ Adv. AbdusSamad

Here is a indication where the people of Elephant were killed and how:

"For the first time, ,Windol Fliees, the head of an American expedition group found samples in Ma’reb in 1951-1952 in the graveyard or cemetery of Awam Temple called Haied Bin Aqeed. But the important discovery was in 1983 in Shebam Al Garas by the archeology expedition department, which found 26 Mummies at a depth of 60 centimeters, and among all those, only one has survived. Moreover, in 1991 Mummies have been found in the Al Noman mountain in Al Mahweet governorate, and until today their work is not finished as there are many more. In 1994 in Saih Bani Matar, Mummies have been found in natural caves, but unfortunately, no one has examined them until this date; because there are no specialists and experts to study the tombs and the bodies. In 1999, another body was found in Shaoob and finally a local found a Mummy of a small child in Damar.

However, not all mummies that were found belong to Yemenis, “A Mummy has been found which belonged to the 6 century, however the body wasn't preserved by humans, but by natural forces. We presume this mummy belonged to one of the Ethiopian soldiers who served in the Army of (Abraha) when they invaded Yemen. There are two theories about the solider’s death: the first theory was that he was killed in battle, the second theory was that he died because of suffocation by volcanic smoke,” said Dr, Abdul Hakim, who is a tutor at Sana’a University in the Archaeology Department and also the storekeeper at the museum."

Source: Para 4 & 5 of article published in Yemen Times by Hamed Thabet titled “Unlocking the secrets of History”; Monday, Oct. 01, 2007. http://atlantisonline.smfforfree2.com/index.php?topic=4022.0;wap2

Location of 105:1-5

by jawaid ahmed,uk @, Friday, August 16, 2013, 07:25 (1464 days ago) @ Adv. AbdusSamad

The words in brackets are the translator’s interpretation. Just like we surmise that Ramesses II was the Pharaoh at the time of Moses due to his building many monuments and was long lived, we can, with a pinch of salt, relate some history to the teachings of the Quran.

This does not mean we have to accept every hypothesis, or what our ancestors have told us it means, but “Do you not see what happened to the people of.....” means we are allowed to look at historical events in the past and expand our understanding of the Quran.

Makkah is not mentioned, but like I said in my first post there are a number of plausible explanations for the verses of the Quran.

Location of 105:1-5

by Adv.AbdusSamad., India., Friday, August 16, 2013, 14:05 (1464 days ago) @ jawaid ahmed,uk

90 % words in brackets are the translator’s interpretation based on
Hadith or not?
Why we need translator’s interpretation while we are claiming that Qur'an Explains it self?

Location of 105:1-5

by Laurie Hamdani @, Chicago, Friday, August 16, 2013, 15:13 (1464 days ago) @ Adv.AbdusSamad.

Dr. Shabbir Ahmed has explained his method with regard to QXP as well as his views on Hadith. It's for you to decide whether you accept his method or not, as it is for you to decide if any translator's or forum participant's comments, footnotes, or other commentary are of use to you in expanding your understanding.

--
Salaam and thank you.

Location...QXP is 100 % correct?

by Adv. AbdusSamad., India., Saturday, August 17, 2013, 04:31 (1463 days ago) @ Laurie Hamdani

Dear Sister, Dr. Shabbir Ahmed's explaination (QXP) is 100 % correct?
Please reply ...

Location...QXP is 100 % correct?

by Dr Waqqaas Ahmad, India., Saturday, August 17, 2013, 11:49 (1463 days ago) @ Adv. AbdusSamad.

Dr. Shabbir Ahmed wrote in the Introduction of his so called Translation QXP. The paragraphs written in red are the quotes taken from the QXP.While normal text are my comments.
Dr. Shabbir Ahmed wrote
QXP is aTasreef-basedunderstanding of the Qur’an presented in contemporary English that is easy enough even for teenagers. It is not a literal translation.
Tasreefis the Qur’anic process where verses in one part of the Qur’an explain or provide deeper understanding of the verses in other parts of theBook. Concisely, it means looking at the Qur’an in its Big Picture. The Qur’an,thus, lets us look at its terms and concepts from very diverse vantage points.This is how special care has been taken to explain every verse from within the Qur’an itself.
The respected reader should expect to find “The Qur’an As It Explains Itself”different from the prevalent translations and explanations because of the use ofTasreefand theQuraish dialect, and for rejecting extrinsic sources.
Now we will analyze the two different things statedabove i.e, theTasreef& TheQuraish Dialect. We will see how Dr. Shabbir Ahmed use his half baked knowledge of Ulum Al Quran (Science of Quran) todelude those who have thehalf of his half baked knowledge of Quran or thescience of Quran.
The Arabic meaning the word Tasreef (تصريف)Google Translation Tags: تصريف
is Discharge , there is another meaning of Tasreef and that is related to a work in Arab Medical system.
As far as Ulum Al Quran is concerned there is no mention of any such Ulum or science, not even as a technique, but there is a technique which fits to thedescription of Tasreef by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed , which is there both in the Books of Ulum Al Quran and Usool At Tafsir, and i.e, Tafsir of Quran by Quran. But there is absolutely no name attributed to it, in the science of Quran or its interpretation, this is something invented by Dr. Shabbir Ahmed to confused all those who areignorant about these sciences, and even if you google the word Tasreef , you will find nothing but the references from the Ourbeacon or Notes from the so called students of Dr. Shabbir, It seems he invented a new name to a technique which was already there, existent, now coming back to over argument of Tafsir of Quran by Quran, most of the translations available or the Books of Tafsir (exegesis) do include this technique, all most all the times, where you see either annotated descriptions, or the footnotes to the indicatingthe references of the verses which describe the verse in more detail, or clear the context as a whole. So there is nothing new or amazing Dr. Shabbir Had done in his QXP. Nothing revolutionary,but just a garb of technical jargon to deceive the half informed and ignorant reader.
Now coming to the secondso called revolutionary notion i.e the Quraish Dialect. First of All we would like to everybody that the Arabic copy of Quran that we have in our Homes is the Uthmanic Mushaf , and the specialty of Utmhanic Quran is that it is in the Quraish Dialect, as we all know that all other Mushafs or Manuscripts which are not upto the standards set by Hazrat Uthman for the final manuscript of Quran were destroyed by the ijmaof All most all the companions, and the Uthmanic Mushaf is in Quraish Dialect, (since Quran was revealed in 7 Dialects of the 7 Arab tribes).
For more about the significance of Quraish Dialect please see the following Video.
Now coming back to the Argument, even if the Quran that we hold was not (which is in fact is) in Quraish Dialect, that wouldhave not changed the meaning of the Quran. The Quran was revealed in 7 Dialects and 7 Modes (ahruf) to facilitate the memorization , as not all of the companions of the Prophet were not from his tribe, nor all were literate enough to learn a new dialect for learning Quran. (more information in the video above).
These 7 Dialects or even 7 modes (in which synonymsof the words are used suchas Salat ul Asr in Mushaf of ibn Masud instead ofSalat ul Wustain Uthmanic Mushaf) these 7 Dialects or 7 Modes do not represent the 7 meanings or 7 Aspects of the Quran. The Meaning is one, and it is preserved as per the promise of Allah in (Al-Hijr: 9), to understand more about Quran Dialects or Style, watch the below videos, although these are not the 7 Dialects but the ways or styles of recitation or Qiraat but give the enough understanding on what a Dialect means,
Al Fatiha in ten different recitations
Surah Al-Ikhlas in ten different recitations
The Video includes some ofthe Dialects also as transmitted by the Mutawatir chain of Narrators,
Notice the difference in recitation of words like Zirat al Mustaqim Instead of Sirat al Mustaqeem or Alyehumo instead of Aleyhuim.
It does not affect the meaning of the Quran.
Note: The different ways of Recitation includes both the 7 Dialects and 7 Modes (notice Malik e youm uddininstead of Maalik e youm uddin ) , that is why the recitation are more than 7 (counted upto 14 by scholars) , all these are transmitted through the chain of Mutawatir Narrators Just like the Quraich Dialect or Uthmanic Quran.
Another confusing aspect which Dr. Shabbir use to deceive people is to write the word Lughat in braces after the word Dialect, people may confuse the Word Lughat to the Dictionary (which contain several meaning) , but the word Lughat in Arabic means Dialect while in Urdu it means a Dictionary.
He further try to confuse the reader in order to justify the notion of Quraish Dialect as something very new and revolutionary by Quoting the Verse 81:19 by doing the so called Tasreef from verses 44:58 & 69:40, I am Quoting the Arabic text & translation of all the three verses , you will never find the wordlughatmentioned therin.
Indeed, this is the revealed Word in the dialect of a noble Messenger.(81:19 QXP)
81:19
إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلُ رَسُولٍ كَرِيمٍ
[That] indeed, the Qur'an isa word [conveyed by] a noble messenger
44:58
فَإِنَّمَا يَسَّرْنَاهُ بِلِسَانِكَ لَعَلَّهُمْيَتَذَكَّرُونَ
And indeed, We have easedthe Qur'an in your tongue that they might be reminded.
69:40
إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلُ رَسُولٍ كَرِيمٍ
[That] indeed, the Qur'an isthe word of a noble Messenger.
Now also see how Dr. Shabbir Had translated thisverse 69:40 in QXP
Certainly, this is the utterance of a noble Messenger. [The Revelationis uttered through his tongue](69:40 QXP)
Same Arabic text for both 81:19 & 69:40 but two different translation. For what ?? Just to undescore to his false notion of Tasreef.

Location...QXP is 100 % correct?

by Laurie Hamdani @, Chicago, Saturday, August 17, 2013, 14:12 (1463 days ago) @ Adv. AbdusSamad.

Dear Sir,

I hesitated at first to respond to your question since your question felt argumentative, and I have already addressed the point. But, I decided to respond because it seems many are fixated on this issue of 100% accuracy.

First, I am not an expert in Arabic, nor an editor, a linguist, or grammarian. So I am not professionally qualified to deem anyone's Quranic translation as 100% accurate or not. Rather, I must rely on my own intellect and reflection to glean meaning and understanding. I have read many English translations of Quran, since English is my native tongue. QXP was the first translation which upon careful reading and reflection truly resonated with me and elucidated the glorious total message.

Furthermore, I find that the overall timeless message of how to develop our characters and our communities in this life, here and now, is of much greater import than the ability to prove the veracity of a particular historical story.

Respectfully, it is incumbent upon us all to come to our own conclusions and to cease argumentation where we don't agree.

--
Salaam and thank you.

Location...QXP is 100 % correct?

by James N, Indonesia @, Indonesia, Monday, August 19, 2013, 23:58 (1460 days ago) @ Laurie Hamdani

Dear Ms Laurie Hamdani.

Thank you.

salam,
James N

Location...QXP is 100 % correct?

by Adv. AbdusSamad, India., Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 15:09 (1460 days ago) @ Laurie Hamdani

Respected Sister,

1) QXP and other 49 (a) are Qur'an Expositions, not Translations !!
In English, Only two following Qur'an Translations exist till date :-
a) Word By Word
b) Word To Word
2) All 50 Qur'an Expositions (c) contains Author's personal understanding which are not present in Arabic text e.g. Yemen's Viceroy Abrahah History. (QXP:105:01-05)

a) http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=1&verse=1

b) http://islamicstudies.info/wordtranslation.php

C) http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/

Location...QXP is 100 % correct?

by Laurie Hamdani @, Chicago, Tuesday, August 20, 2013, 16:41 (1459 days ago) @ Adv. AbdusSamad

Sir I stand corrected on the in incorrect word usage. Thank you.

--
Salaam and thank you.

Location...QXP is 100 % correct?

by Syed Ijlal Hussain ⌂ @, Karachi - Pakistan, Friday, October 11, 2013, 19:53 (1407 days ago) @ Adv. AbdusSamad

Respected Sister,

1) QXP and other 49 (a) are Qur'an Expositions, not Translations !!
In English, Only two following Qur'an Translations exist till date :-
a) Word By Word
b) Word To Word
2) All 50 Qur'an Expositions (c) contains Author's personal understanding which are not present in Arabic text e.g. Yemen's Viceroy Abrahah History. (QXP:105:01-05)

a) http://corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=1&verse=1

b) http://islamicstudies.info/wordtranslation.php

C) http://www.islamawakened.com/Quran/

QXP is a human effort and no human effort at translating The Word of Allah can be 100% correct. I, however, find it much better than the traditional translations.

I opened the above links and found no difference between the 'word by word' and 'word to word' translations to the traditional translations, as far as Al-Fatiha is concerned. They all convey the same meaning I learned as a child.

Sadly, there is as much division among the Quranists, as there is among the traditionalists. This world has become a lonely place once again.

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